General Discussion

vi5

(13,305 posts)

66. The reason this is important...

Thu Sep 28, 2017, 01:56 PM

Sep 2017

...is not understanding this is a fundamental reason why we keep getting things wrong and focusing on the wrong things.

Yes, it concerns me, but the relentless focus on Stein and Bernie completely miss the point. The segment of people who didn't vote for Hillary and voted for Stein or wrote in Bernie or whoever, would NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR HILLARY. No matter what. So yeah, focus on the Russia issue, and propaganda from Fox News or Brietbart and the way that may have influenced people. But just stop with the relentless focus on Stein or whoever else as a specific scapegoat.

There are way more people who probably voted for Trump over Hillary than who voted for Stein over Hillary. 3rd party voters hate the system as a whole and want no part of it. Yes, they are stupid and short sighted but they are NOT THE ONES WHO ARE SIPHONING VOTES FROM ANY DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. Those people would never and will never vote for any Democratic candidate and would have never voted for Hillary. Someone who voted for Trump over Hillary is more likely to be persuaded to vote within the system for OUR candidate. For instance the 30% of Latino voters who went for Trump, or the 30% of Jewish voters who went for Trump, or the 40% of women who voted for Trump.

Fixating on third party voters is a fool's errand of the highest order.

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Chris Matthews also did a segment on Jill Stein splitting [View all] Skidmore Sep 2017 OP

good segment. He clearly laid out that Stein hurt the dems trueblue2007 Sep 2017 #1

@$!# Jill Stein. Scurrilous Sep 2017 #2

Exactly. But not her voters. We need them. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #12

There are far far more non-voters out there. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #14

I agree. We need to get the non voters active. Blue_true Sep 2017 #18

We need them, too. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #20

I doubt Stein voters in 2016 are ever gonna vote for Dems radical noodle Sep 2017 #15

They still have points of view worth hearing nt Gore1FL Sep 2017 #19

Really? Why? radical noodle Sep 2017 #24

Because their views are worth at least as much as those on the other side of the 50 yard line. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #26

They can have all the views they want but they radical noodle Sep 2017 #28

I am not suggesting that you are right of center. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #29

I would guess it's more like radical noodle Sep 2017 #30

We lost by a lot less than 10% Gore1FL Sep 2017 #36

Less than 10% Stein voters radical noodle Sep 2017 #38

To what? Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #49

I wonder what would have happened if we made an effort to show them otherwise. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #70

There is an authoritarian left and right-that segment delisen Sep 2017 #44

So we should pander to the lunatic fringe? Spy Car Sep 2017 #80

welcome to du gopiscrap Oct 2017 #82

No they do not. BzaDem Sep 2017 #31

You cannot complain they they do not vote for us Gore1FL Sep 2017 #34

One may however, simultaneously observe and complain. Which is precisely what was done. LanternWaste Sep 2017 #59

They cannot simultaneously fall into two opposite categories. They are not Schrodinger's voters. nt Gore1FL Sep 2017 #75

That doesn't make sense. People complain about Republican voters all the time. n/t BzaDem Sep 2017 #71

How many expect them to vote Democratic, complain when they don't Gore1FL Sep 2017 #76

They claim they are on the left, and prefer progressive policies. BzaDem Sep 2017 #79

Putin thanks you. n/t Lil Missy Sep 2017 #54

Don't be an idiot. I voted for Clinton. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #77

I have no interest in hearing anything from these fools not even a little bit. They have no say. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #57

That is why we lose. nt Gore1FL Sep 2017 #78

We lose because we keep trying to win over people who determinedly choose to Ninsianna Oct 2017 #81

"Greens do not vote for Democrats."-- Jill Stein, 2017 VOX Sep 2017 #33

So your say that Jill Stein is correct in her assertions? Gore1FL Sep 2017 #35

They voted for her didn't they? radical noodle Sep 2017 #39

No, hell no. I (thought I) was using her own words to show... VOX Sep 2017 #43

They can fuck themselves...this was a very close election...I doubt we will see another one like it. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #56

If our brand is damaged, we need to fix it. Gore1FL Sep 2017 #69

I understand the Russians ran ads for her as well? Makes you wonder, don't it? Tarheel_Dem Sep 2017 #3

Yep SHRED Sep 2017 #11

lol. JHan Sep 2017 #13

I doubt they'll ever admit they believe it n/t radical noodle Sep 2017 #16

Yeah right NastyRiffraff Sep 2017 #74

I remember seeing this expensive ad for her on national tv kimbutgar Sep 2017 #4

Bet your friend's daughter don't feel like a fool today. Blue_true Sep 2017 #21

Chris said the Russians had ads on facebook supporting Stein and against Hillary. wasupaloopa Sep 2017 #5

ANY Democrat who had doubts that Stein was a filthy ruskie mole .... LenaBaby61 Sep 2017 #6

The only question is whether Stein was a knowing tool for Putin or an unknowing tool. TomSlick Sep 2017 #7

I know that the Green Party Skidmore Sep 2017 #8

I'd never vote for a Green Party candidate for Potus Gore1FL Sep 2017 #22

She can always use a little extra income n/t radical noodle Sep 2017 #17

She is a millionaire. nt Blue_true Sep 2017 #23

I know radical noodle Sep 2017 #25

There is also a question brer cat Sep 2017 #45

She's almost as big a crook as trump radical noodle Sep 2017 #48

She was in on it rufus dog Sep 2017 #27

I don't care how many degrees she has, she is an idiot Bradshaw3 Sep 2017 #32

I miss this segment Gothmog Sep 2017 #9

Stein is a Russian collaborator and possibly a Russian colluder. democratisphere Sep 2017 #10

It's out there now. Rachel did a hard hitting comprehensive program tonight on Russia... Hekate Sep 2017 #37

Sanders names Cornel West, Keith Ellison to DNC platform committee TomCADem Sep 2017 #40

Cornel West endorses Jill Stein and says she not Hillary Clinton is the 'only progressive woman TomCADem Sep 2017 #41

West came to mind immediately. Skidmore Sep 2017 #42

Video here: ehrnst Sep 2017 #46

Sounds like the news made Jill Stein angry, LOL! WTF? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #47

The report says they did ads for Bernie too even AFTER the nomination was made. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #50

I remember people advocating for writing Bernie's name in. Bet they were behind that. n/t pnwmom Sep 2017 #52

Is there any evidence or indication in there at all... vi5 Sep 2017 #51

No excuse for Stein's involvement with the Russians. Skidmore Sep 2017 #55

So......the answer is no? vi5 Sep 2017 #58

There is evidence of Stein Skidmore Sep 2017 #61

The reason this is important... vi5 Sep 2017 #66

R U KIDDING? Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #65

Exactly my point. Forget Stein... vi5 Sep 2017 #67

This is why I will never forgive that that no words bad enough...and I believe the Trump campaign or Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #53

Jill Stein voters are not the reason Hillary lost. PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2017 #60

Look again at WHERE Stein got votes 6000eliot Sep 2017 #62

I did look at where she got the votes. PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2017 #64

Perhaps try looking a little harder then? BzaDem Sep 2017 #72

In all of those states, plus the others I named PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2017 #73

What evidence is there anywhere... vi5 Sep 2017 #68

She's an easy target. progressoid Sep 2017 #63