General Discussion

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,033 posts)

114. Objectification is only a problem when it crosses over to behavior.

Thu Sep 28, 2017, 05:06 PM

Sep 2017

The problems with porn are fundamentally due to the lack of proper opportunities and pay for women in other sectors of the economy and society. Closely related is societal shaming including the double standard that condemns promiscuous women and celebrates promiscuous men.

Other problems, flowing from that, are bad working conditions, criminally fraudulent promises, sexual harassment, lack of equity participation opportunities, etc.

I have never seen anyone write complaining about the objectification of men in porn featuring men — examples being porn appealing to women, to homosexual men, and to submissive males — which is just as prevalent in those varieties as any other.

To the extent that porn featuring women is a problem it is basically a symptom of a sick society, not a cause. Further, some women have had great careers in porn on either side or both sides of the camera.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

335 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Hugh Hefner was the ultimate enemy of women no feminist anywhere will shed a tear at his death [View all] niyad Sep 2017 OP

Thank you! K & R!!!! 50 Shades Of Blue Sep 2017 #1

you are most welcome--I have been sickened reading the articles about what great things he did. niyad Sep 2017 #2

It is even worse when you consider he was a liberal when it came to race, at least for the times. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #4

People are complicated Dorian Gray Sep 2017 #204

He was liberal when it didn't inconvenience HIM whathehell Sep 2017 #211

Or this Dorian Gray Sep 2017 #310

"Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left' whathehell Sep 2017 #209

You are not kidding. DLevine Sep 2017 #213

Agreed.. whathehell Sep 2017 #320

absolutely correct. we see it daily, even in places where one would not expect it. niyad Sep 2017 #242

I have read various articles on this topic on a number of liberal blogs and websites. smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #262

should not be surprising. we certainly saw enough of it during the campaign. niyad Sep 2017 #263

Yes... whathehell Sep 2017 #322

Yes whathehell Sep 2017 #319

So have I. Yeah, what a humanitarian he was. If you don't consider women part of the human race. 50 Shades Of Blue Sep 2017 #6

Lots of mansplaining going on in those threads... Phentex Sep 2017 #141

Meanwhile this one channels a non-apologetic TERF author Major Nikon Sep 2017 #167

Clearly a SWERF as well Lordquinton Sep 2017 #193

OMG yes. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #243

I'm with you Dorian Gray Sep 2017 #203

I have to admit, I am kind of disgusted by so many on this board lauding him as a hero. smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #3

sadly, you are quite correct. niyad Sep 2017 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #9

Me three... fuck Hugh!! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #234

Too bad. MicaelS Sep 2017 #25

You are right. They are free to objectify women if they want. MrsCoffee Sep 2017 #29

Nobody's trying to take your paper girlfriends away from you. PassingFair Sep 2017 #36

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #38

Proposition should be legal? Nt raccoon Sep 2017 #46

Haven't You Heard of the Dangers of a Dangling Proposition? Stallion Sep 2017 #50

DOH!!!!! corrected thanks. n/t MicaelS Sep 2017 #55

Yes, women get to make all of the rules about what happens to their bodies. Sorry that bothers you. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #48

Women do indeed have the right to make all the rules about their bodies... brooklynite Sep 2017 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #61

Her body her choice only applies in cases of pregnancy it seems Fullduplexxx Sep 2017 #82

really????? that is why there are so many laws making her "choice" next to impossible?????? niyad Sep 2017 #253

My point is her body her choice just as with abortion . If she wants to pose nude Fullduplexxx Sep 2017 #274

you really do not get it. address, if you please, the concept of "choice" when the pukes niyad Oct 2017 #324

I get what youre saying... but not all states ban it and the u.s. isnt the only country Fullduplexxx Oct 2017 #325

wow, you keep demonstrating that you truly do not get it. we are not discussing other niyad Oct 2017 #326

Wow I already have addressed it, there are other places to go to get it. Fullduplexxx Oct 2017 #332

keep trying. you are almost amusing in your deflections, and assumptions that we do not niyad Oct 2017 #334

Well you keep trying to understand if you want i think it's pretty clear Fullduplexxx Oct 2017 #335

The problem is you can't really separate the economics of our society mythology Sep 2017 #258

Right on man!!! Agree 100% beaglelover Sep 2017 #149

You agree it's ok for men to rape without anyone criticizing unless they're in a committed ... uppityperson Sep 2017 #155

If you agree anyone's sexual satisfaction matters more than other people's lives and dignity, uppityperson Sep 2017 #152

Yeah..kind of the ultimate Male Privilege.. whathehell Sep 2017 #208

Wrong -- we are totally free to call you and anyone else obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #157

We still have plenty of ignorant misogynistic troglodites on the Right,and the Left, too. Squinch Sep 2017 #158

Wow! So people who deplore the objectification of women are prudes? SharonClark Sep 2017 #191

Agree. White feminists have little to say about white women, radius777 Sep 2017 #195

'Majority'....By one percent? Give me a break! whathehell Sep 2017 #212

Feminists claim all men oppress all women, radius777 Sep 2017 #216

Some feminists may say that -- Most say they live in a Patriarchy whathehell Sep 2017 #219

talk about cherry-picking; those same MOC voted 10 to 1 against Hillary in the primaries when the TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #279

that's like saying that ted bundy represents all (or most) men; yes, ted bundy was a man, but he was TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #280

IOW MOST women voted against an oppressive system while MOST white men Squinch Sep 2017 #288

WTF? Dorian Gray Sep 2017 #206

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #218

If you think you've been putting up with bullshit DLevine Sep 2017 #220

Did You Forget The Sarcasm Thingie? ProfessorGAC Sep 2017 #224

I am so grateful that someone has been kind enough to explain this to all of us. ehrnst Sep 2017 #244

did you accidentally wander into the wrong forum? niyad Sep 2017 #249

goddess forfend that women, and the men who support them, should talk about what niyad Sep 2017 #250

this isn't reddit. niyad Sep 2017 #254

Then it's a good thing that few if any liberal men care LittleBlue Sep 2017 #201

Sure..'"Midogny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left" whathehell Sep 2017 #215

+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #264

Thanks, Smirk whathehell Sep 2017 #321

If only I'd known that I offended Kstja Pollitt LittleBlue Sep 2017 #267

So if someone quotes, say, Nietzsche, you think it's all about you and how Nietzsche Squinch Sep 2017 #290

Lol.. whathehell Sep 2017 #318

I don't think you have a clue what liberal men think. MrsCoffee Sep 2017 #226

I'm sure you know men much better than me LittleBlue Sep 2017 #268

Stereotypical? Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #272

Right? There's a sign hanging out and it doesn't say "liberal." Squinch Sep 2017 #291

So you are not affected by the disappointment of women. It's SO important Squinch Sep 2017 #289

"Their sexual satisfaction matters more than other.. whathehell Sep 2017 #205

Well said. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #235

Me as well. This guy didn't do anyone any favors by existing. nt Nay Sep 2017 #236

He did open the door for Playgirl which was part of women's sexual revolution snooper2 Sep 2017 #7

mirroring objectification is not liberation. grantcart Sep 2017 #11

I guess I should check all the users who were/are GA GA over Justin Trudeau snooper2 Sep 2017 #18

I especially liked how so many people talked about his boobs and butt LanternWaste Sep 2017 #27

oh, there is a picture of his boobs and biceps in that thread...but objectification isn't done snooper2 Sep 2017 #34

LOL indeed melman Sep 2017 #49

Oops. progressoid Sep 2017 #73

You're having a little trouble with the concept of objecification RandomAccess Sep 2017 #245

Best comment on this thread. HopeAgain Sep 2017 #57

You got that right! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #301

Play girl actually had more gay males and subscribers than it ever had women elehhhhna Sep 2017 #47

Thank you. My college girlfriends and I had a couple of those mags for the Nay Sep 2017 #238

Playgirl was created for gay men obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #159

Not a very big part. At all. Squinch Sep 2017 #164

Romance novels/soaps/romcoms do objectify men radius777 Sep 2017 #200

When did these MRA talking points start on a Democratic website? MrsCoffee Sep 2017 #227

They think we don't notice. It's funny after a while. Squinch Sep 2017 #292

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Coventina Sep 2017 #232

Right? And don't look now but by that logic, western novels objectify men too! Squinch Sep 2017 #287

And, don't even get me started on comic books! Coventina Sep 2017 #304

Ooooh!!! Batman's so alpha!!!! I want him to pay all my bills! Because I'm a woman and Squinch Sep 2017 #307

Hehehe! Coventina Sep 2017 #313

Now how did I guess you were an MRA type w/your first post? RandomAccess Sep 2017 #246

"Hard wired" usually means stereotypes treestar Sep 2017 #256

LOL! This whole "alpha male" bullshit is a hangup of men who believe in Squinch Sep 2017 #286

No tears here... PassingFair Sep 2017 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #10

mine was, "good" niyad Sep 2017 #12

A big shrug from me... PassingFair Sep 2017 #13

me too obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #160

I've always thought that Hefner turned his personal preoccupation with large breasts maddiemom Sep 2017 #255

K&R. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #14

I agree; talk about exploitation treestar Sep 2017 #15

Excellent insight RandomAccess Sep 2017 #247

Honestly I'm kind of shocked Orrex Sep 2017 #16

Well, you were right lunatica Sep 2017 #26

Weekend at Heffie's Orrex Sep 2017 #40

They used the same makeup artist who did Evita Peron and Lenin lunatica Sep 2017 #43

Me, too. My reaction was, "What, he wasn't dead already?" The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #52

Disagree 500% Hawaii Hiker Sep 2017 #17

oooookaaaaay. . . . niyad Sep 2017 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author Atman Sep 2017 #101

Women being seen as an object of sex was Hefner's legacy to women lunatica Sep 2017 #24

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #32

Really? Because looking at women as objects is so progressive? livetohike Sep 2017 #37

As long as they weren't coerced into it... Baconator Sep 2017 #89

Economics coerce women into it... women still don't get paid what they are worth... Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #330

Obviously you resent women for objecting to your ideas of what we should think and do lunatica Sep 2017 #39

There were a lot of women competing eagerly to pose nude and wear bunniy tails Autumn Sep 2017 #282

Without that, the human race would have gone extinct thousands of years ago. Kaleva Sep 2017 #35

nope lunatica Sep 2017 #41

Without testosterone, there'd never would have been Playboy Kaleva Sep 2017 #45

So why would they need Heff then? lunatica Sep 2017 #85

Why did they need pin up posters, racy playing cards, erotic photos and drawings? Kaleva Sep 2017 #88

Was that not the case previously? I think Playboy's legacy is probably a mixed bag, JCanete Sep 2017 #93

If Heffner helped it was as a shining example of what most women didn't want lunatica Sep 2017 #94

Interesting history, thank you. nt JCanete Sep 2017 #102

At the end of the day he was in the business of selling magazines Major Nikon Sep 2017 #194

Someone more informed than you RandomAccess Sep 2017 #248

well you certainly have convinced me with all of that knowledge that you are one JCanete Sep 2017 #252

I am always willing to share information RandomAccess Sep 2017 #260

and what would that look like to you pray tell? JCanete Sep 2017 #261

Well, that's part of the test RandomAccess Sep 2017 #266

and how, with a lack of any and all guidance, does somebody evolve to the point where that person JCanete Sep 2017 #269

Hey, man, if you don't know how to be sincere -- RandomAccess Sep 2017 #273

so sincerity doesn't look like trying to consider the whole impact of Playboy and to even suggest JCanete Sep 2017 #276

You know what? RandomAccess Sep 2017 #278

thanks, no hard feelings! nt JCanete Sep 2017 #283

Amazing what I learn on DU. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #51

LOL! That was such an enlightening post! lunamagica Sep 2017 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author lunamagica Sep 2017 #92

Quite the history lesson there. johnp3907 Sep 2017 #132

So it's okay to objectify women as sex objects... Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #59

some people conflate sexual freedom w/ objectification of women; it is important to make TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #96

+1 ... Playboy had nothing to do with sex. nt prayin4rain Sep 2017 #183

"brain dead.. disposable bunnies" - misogynist anti-sex moralism radius777 Sep 2017 #210

LOL -- you're in no position to make that assessment RandomAccess Sep 2017 #251

you pretty much just illustrated EXACTLY what i wrote. nt TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #281

It was kind of perfect, wasn't it? Squinch Sep 2017 #293

heh heh. nt TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #316

Totally agree with you, HH... Callmecrazy Sep 2017 #97

No one ever got rich by doing something terrible? wryter2000 Sep 2017 #111

Not the same thing... Callmecrazy Sep 2017 #127

Like what? wryter2000 Sep 2017 #140

Giving women drugs Dorian Gray Sep 2017 #207

As long as men are exploiting women wryter2000 Sep 2017 #107

Yeah, wrong -- the birth control pill did that obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #163

Right. All those prudy prudes complaining about objectification! Amiright? Squinch Sep 2017 #166

Disagree with that statement 500% Caliman73 Sep 2017 #172

Thank you RandomAccess Sep 2017 #257

Part of it is because of physiology, but a lot of it is because of socialization. Caliman73 Sep 2017 #294

I'm with you Hiker, he was a progressive man jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 #176

.and after Hefner, women are STILL being called 'sluts" whathehell Sep 2017 #217

Boy! You said it! lunatica Sep 2017 #20

I have been looking to see if she has made any comment about his passing. nothing so far. niyad Sep 2017 #22

And more than the borderline sexual assaults/sex slavery and the pictures of nekkid ladies... Orsino Sep 2017 #21

so true niyad Sep 2017 #23

Too bad we still don't have Unrec. n/t MicaelS Sep 2017 #28

really? why? niyad Sep 2017 #30

Can't get that feeling of control just posting in the thread. MrsCoffee Sep 2017 #67

Because the entire pretext is nonsensical Major Nikon Sep 2017 #120

Hefner did nothing 'progressive' for men leftstreet Sep 2017 #190

Sure, there's nothing progressive about putting black and white musicians on the same stage Major Nikon Sep 2017 #192

Bill Cosby used to hang there. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2017 #31

a most excellent point. niyad Sep 2017 #33

"I called Hugh Hefner a pimp, he threatened to sue. But thats what he was" demmiblue Sep 2017 #42

thank you for this. I think it deserves its own OP, for visibility. niyad Sep 2017 #44

Yeah, I agree. Fuck that. Dave Starsky Sep 2017 #115

I read that this morning, some bitter truths for those who glamorize him. JHan Sep 2017 #109

What about Playgirl? RandySF Sep 2017 #53

See grantcart's post (#11)... PunkinPi Sep 2017 #108

Hooray! Laffy Kat Sep 2017 #54

you are most welcome--the lionizing of this misogynistic creep is disgusting. niyad Sep 2017 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author panader0 Sep 2017 #66

Sexual attraction and sexual objectification are two different things. nt DLevine Sep 2017 #68

so if a guy says "yuuuuummmmmmmmmmmm" Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #74

True Major Nikon Sep 2017 #134

That is exactly it! When I am attracted to a man, even if it's just physical at first, I don't smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #161

So sexuality makes us less human? Major Nikon Sep 2017 #165

No, you misunderstand me. It makes us very human. It is the insistence that a woman smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #169

I'm understanding you even less now Major Nikon Sep 2017 #171

Forget it. It's not about nudity. It's not about sex. smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #173

Kant's idea of objectification had little to do with desireablity Major Nikon Sep 2017 #181

Your logic squares up if applied to a society based on equality. prayin4rain Sep 2017 #185

I'm questioning the cause vs effect Major Nikon Sep 2017 #186

Yes, I acknowledged that even in a prayin4rain Sep 2017 #187

I just don't see the evidence for your claims Major Nikon Sep 2017 #189

Exactly. Society is based upon men "paying" for sex radius777 Sep 2017 #214

Don't you have an MRA rally to attend somewhere? smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #271

WTF world do you live in? Seriously, stop watching those 50s sit coms and talk to Squinch Sep 2017 #295

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #156

As with all human beings Bettie Sep 2017 #58

As a man I was appalled that his death was front page news. Scruffy1 Sep 2017 #60

Thank you. Pacifist Patriot Sep 2017 #62

yes!! thank you! niyad Sep 2017 #64

Another thank you... 3catwoman3 Sep 2017 #77

Thank you wryter2000 Sep 2017 #112

He was always creepy to me. The whole Playboy thing is. Oneironaut Sep 2017 #63

so true niyad Sep 2017 #65

Me, too. BadgerMom Sep 2017 #69

Right there with you, Oneironaut ailsagirl Sep 2017 #314

Pro sports is the buying and selling of bodies by the same logic. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #70

Not QUITE the same thing. Adrahil Sep 2017 #75

Something wrong with sex while athletic commodity is ok? Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #95

Nothing wrong with sex... Adrahil Sep 2017 #100

Objectification is only a problem when it crosses over to behavior. Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #114

There's also tons of academic writing on the myths of global warming Major Nikon Sep 2017 #146

Boobies! Major Nikon Sep 2017 #136

Is that picture NSFW? Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #137

Probably should have included the warning Major Nikon Sep 2017 #138

Pervert!!! edbermac Sep 2017 #139

I'm no fan of Hefner... Dopers_Greed Sep 2017 #71

I thought he was a creep Skittles Sep 2017 #72

A significant cog in the giant entertainment and advertising sex-ploitation wheel. Sneederbunk Sep 2017 #76

The least sexually repressed kids I knew growing up were farm kids. Sex was a natural act, not jalan48 Sep 2017 #78

I think the title of "ultimate enemy" ought to go to Trump, evangelical leaders and some others. Kaleva Sep 2017 #79

Yup. As a new teenager, I looked at Playboy, because MineralMan Sep 2017 #80

I didn't know he forced these women to pose at gunpoint? Got a link? n/t Fix The Stupid Sep 2017 #81

Did someone say that he did? I didn't see that. MineralMan Sep 2017 #99

Ahh...so we're back to infantilizing women... Fix The Stupid Sep 2017 #104

Of course they can make choices as individuals. MineralMan Sep 2017 #113

You could say the same thing about pretty much any unskilled or low skilled labor Major Nikon Sep 2017 #121

Their agency is affected by the society around them treestar Sep 2017 #129

As is everyone's Major Nikon Sep 2017 #131

"Exploiting people for money is not an ethical thing to do, even if they are willing" GReedDiamond Sep 2017 #198

No, it's not ethical in all situations RandomAccess Sep 2017 #265

"The key factor is humiliation, degradation, physical harm, or some other negative effect... GReedDiamond Sep 2017 #270

What do you mean RandomAccess Sep 2017 #275

You seem a bit hostile... GReedDiamond Sep 2017 #285

Gotta love all the acceptable gravedancing going on around these parts Blue_Adept Sep 2017 #83

Hefner's sexism was nothing compared to extreme sexism in other countries. kwassa Sep 2017 #84

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #86

LOL...Welcom to DU. Iggo Sep 2017 #91

The ultimate enemy? melman Sep 2017 #90

AHA, anti-sex AND a TERF!nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #106

More interesting reading from the same author... Major Nikon Sep 2017 #147

Here's another nice one melman Sep 2017 #151

Interesting the parallels between the TERFs and far right social conservatives Major Nikon Sep 2017 #153

He and the Religious fanatics get the red out Sep 2017 #98

Religious fanatics and radical feminists both want to censor porn. mr_liberal Sep 2017 #180

Porn consumption is highest in the most religious states. So no. Squinch Sep 2017 #296

And yet, the GOP has a plank in the platform for banning it. RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #297

Uh huh. And they say that Trump is going to build a wall and the tax bill is good for Squinch Sep 2017 #300

Republicans and religious nuts are repressed hypocrites RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #302

"That was the correct initial answer" to what? What was the question? Squinch Sep 2017 #306

That no one should be surprised GOP hypocrites consume what they want to ban for others. RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #308

You seem to be veering a bit. Squinch Sep 2017 #309

Have a good night n/m RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #311

I have no experience with get the red out Sep 2017 #317

A pro-choice, pro-gay marriage publisher? RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #298

From Salon... Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #331

Amen! Lunabell Sep 2017 #103

Amen wryter2000 Sep 2017 #105

The article gets a fact wrong regarding Steinem. Old Crow Sep 2017 #110

good link; sadly, stuff written 150+ years ago by women like S.B. Anthony and E.C. Stanton is still TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #315

K&R. Thank you for this thread lunamagica Sep 2017 #116

A friend of mine was one of the 25th Anniversary Playmates. Atman Sep 2017 #117

The fact that she did well with what she got... Adrahil Sep 2017 #125

I think the key words are "have to." Atman Sep 2017 #133

My wife was a model in L.A. for a while. Dave Starsky Sep 2017 #148

Huge K&R. jcmaine72 Sep 2017 #118

May he find peace in death Lazy Daisy Sep 2017 #119

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #122

so, what is a "real man", anyway? NRaleighLiberal Sep 2017 #123

You joined just to post that? Codeine Sep 2017 #124

Lordy wryter2000 Sep 2017 #143

I'm sure the reality is quite the opposite. smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #168

New user name wryter2000 Sep 2017 #241

And what pray tell is your DI Username? 😏 Floyd R. Turbo Sep 2017 #126

Enjoy your stay. johnp3907 Sep 2017 #130

"stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and ... muriel_volestrangler Sep 2017 #135

Misogynist, big time, real real bad actually Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #145

Feh! MineralMan Sep 2017 #175

Really? The "ultimate" enemy of women? vi5 Sep 2017 #128

Except not really... WoonTars Sep 2017 #142

May he rest in pieces... k8conant Sep 2017 #144

He was just a click above being a human trafficker obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #150

There is a reason Bill Cosby liked the Mansio and Playboy parties obamanut2012 Sep 2017 #154

Hyperbole much? Egnever Sep 2017 #162

Christy Hefner Locutusofborg Sep 2017 #170

Oh yes, he liberated women... Raven Sep 2017 #174

Oh god Loki Liesmith Sep 2017 #177

Hefner united feminist and evangelicals against him. dubyadiprecession Sep 2017 #178

Author of article in OP is a transphobe Kaleva Sep 2017 #179

It's already been pointed out, but doesn't seem to be much of a buzzkill Major Nikon Sep 2017 #182

There was a former member here who was a hard core feminist and transphobic Kaleva Sep 2017 #184

Wasn't sure what TERF meant. edbermac Sep 2017 #188

It's ironic RhodeIslandOne Sep 2017 #197

A certain group has returned here. joshcryer Sep 2017 #196

I wouldn't say "returned", have you checked out the HoF forum lately? snooper2 Sep 2017 #225

It's been very quiet in there lately... Phentex Sep 2017 #237

Some here are thrilled that some of the feminist voices have been sent away. Squinch Sep 2017 #299

We have a problem of doing nuance well . See the circumcision wars. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #199

"People, regardless of their gender or orientation, want to see naked people " Yavin4 Sep 2017 #229

They found pornographic drawings on the walls of the ruins of Pompeii. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #231

The author of this piece is known for being transphobic oberliner Sep 2017 #202

Really ? DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #221

Are you aware of the term "TERF" ? oberliner Sep 2017 #222

I googled it. I would wish posters wouldn't bring the work of such authors here. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #223

There are better articles that cover mostly the same points Blue_Adept Sep 2017 #230

Hefner's legacy is complex. I see his detractors and proponents turning him into a caricature. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #233

Nothing Hef did helped women Johnny2X2X Sep 2017 #228

Was helping women his stated mission? Yavin4 Sep 2017 #239

No, but people are trying to spin it that way Johnny2X2X Sep 2017 #240

Whatever he did does not compare to what a majority of White women did to elect Trump Yavin4 Sep 2017 #284

He fought for marriage equality before most politicians came around to support it oberliner Sep 2017 #277

Considering Sgent Sep 2017 #303

Yeah. He was a jerk for jerk offs, not much of a human being. His consumerist nightmare was... NNadir Sep 2017 #305

I was just thinking of her while I was reading all the posts that talk about how Squinch Sep 2017 #312

THANK you, Niyad whathehell Sep 2017 #323

Ultimate enemy of women? Vinnie From Indy Oct 2017 #327

Thumbs down for the absolutist position... of course people JCMach1 Oct 2017 #328

Yeah it shows how far we need to go as women to protect our rights when supposed liberals on this Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #329

you are absolutely correct. niyad Oct 2017 #333