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JCanete

(5,272 posts)

47. It should be acknowledged though, that there is a distinction between compromising

Mon Oct 2, 2017, 10:13 PM

Oct 2017

with the enemy to get all we can get at a given moment, and compromising before we even get to the table to accept a far less ambitious agenda from our allies. That is the ANTITHESIS of making anyone do it. That is certainly not scaring the GOP into finding a measure that both sides can agree on. Remember back in the day when the ACA WAS a Republican plan? Because at that time the GOP actually had to offer something in-between extremes. Now they can just say no to their compromise plan, and if it passes, they got their compromise. If it didn't, they didn't have to give up shit. It is our own people in our own party standing in the way of greater progressive legislation. We passed the ACA on party lines. Why do we have to compromise with ourselves again?

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"Making the perfect the enemy of the good." [View all] JHan Oct 2017 OP

Hillary is soooo right on target with this excerpt! nt. Amimnoch Oct 2017 #1

Yep, it's a good explanation of game theory in action JHan Oct 2017 #8

Great excerpt, thanks. Hillary's got it! George II Oct 2017 #2

I believe Hillary was referring to Susan Sarandon... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #115

Boy How Often Have We Heard That Lately Me. Oct 2017 #3

there are so many good bits in the book. JHan Oct 2017 #6

It Will Never Be Enough For Some Me. Oct 2017 #9

Ain't that the truth?! (Great lyrics you quoted, BTW!) NurseJackie Oct 2017 #112

Wow! sheshe2 Oct 2017 #4

Perfectionism/ dualistic thinking are never positive. ehrnst Oct 2017 #5

++++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #7

K&R betsuni Oct 2017 #10

K & R SunSeeker Oct 2017 #11

One disagreement BainsBane Oct 2017 #12

Some will say you're being harsh but I agree with your assessment. JHan Oct 2017 #15

This. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #20

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #31

A big thumbs up! justhanginon Oct 2017 #30

Obviously, it is wrong to say that there's NO difference between the two parties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #13

Good Grief Could You Twist Her Words Any More Than You Have JUst Done Me. Oct 2017 #16

Not about her-about the way that phrase"don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"- Ken Burch Oct 2017 #17

Again with the strawmen and hyperbole ehrnst Oct 2017 #19

NO-and that itself is a strawmen. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #22

No, it's not a strawman. It's a response to a strawman.... ehrnst Oct 2017 #24

It's not as though the only possiblities are being "dualistic" Ken Burch Oct 2017 #26

I think your post just indicated ehrnst Oct 2017 #27

No, not "any compromise"...I'll clarify Ken Burch Oct 2017 #35

Come on Ken... JHan Oct 2017 #46

You're assuming I only care about what I want, that it's about ego with me. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #50

well.. JHan Oct 2017 #51

Petty? ehrnst Oct 2017 #62

Very Informative post ++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #74

I'm well aware that the LGBTQ community were excluded from that act. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #85

Because every decision, every piece of legislation has a numerical metric of over or under 50% ehrnst Oct 2017 #59

You didn't read the post you're replying to? betsuni Oct 2017 #60

We need our victories where we can get them, I suppose. ehrnst Oct 2017 #63

Big big sale, the biggest. At these prices we're practically giving them away! betsuni Oct 2017 #64

I did read it. I wanted to clarify that it's not a comparable situation Ken Burch Oct 2017 #82

Which is why I said that I knew that....in my post. ehrnst Oct 2017 #90

Like I Said Me. Oct 2017 #25

..... (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #66

This+1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #77

It's helpful to avoid false equivalencies and strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #18

That phrase "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" goes back to the Nineties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #21

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" goes back even farther than the '90's ehrnst Oct 2017 #23

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #28

I know it goes back to Voltaire, but it became a party maxim in the Nineties. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #29

Very well said. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #33

Nonsense, Ken. The same was said about LBJ and FDR in their own times. bettyellen Oct 2017 #53

I think you might be very disappointed to learn about the Civil Rights act of 1964 ehrnst Oct 2017 #65

Woah. +1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #34

The politics of the 90's was very different... JHan Oct 2017 #105

It was a different time. But for a lot of us, it's a big thing to want to be sure... Ken Burch Oct 2017 #106

You have to put those challenges in context..it seems you don't want to.. JHan Oct 2017 #107

"Those politics" I dont know whether to laugh or cry Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #108

Selective history but this is what is at the heart of the discontent.. JHan Oct 2017 #110

That would be hard. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #109

I'm not talking about Bill here as much as I am about the future. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #111

Well, I do agree Dems could have done much better to sell H/C legislation to the public.. JHan Oct 2017 #113

"Tearing allies down gives ammo to their opponents..." Yes indeed. I'd also add... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #114

Ken. Blue_true Oct 2017 #45

Agreed. Your observation and description are right on target. NurseJackie Oct 2017 #116

For a refreshing change, why not blame Republicans for Republican-majority legislation betsuni Oct 2017 #52

There are few if any situations where Democratic presidents HAVE to sign Republican legislation. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #55

Hillary's strategy was to help senate candidate and gov races.... bettyellen Oct 2017 #56

I'm not attacking Hillary here, or at all. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #57

I never know what you're talking about. betsuni Oct 2017 #61

### NurseJackie Oct 2017 #117

Sorry Ken, your misinterpretation of HRC's point/words seems like a real stretch to me. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #70

I did say I agree fully with what she says in the last line quoted in the OP. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #93

Exactly. brer cat Oct 2017 #14

This fragment: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #32

Compromise is not betrayal JHan Oct 2017 #36

But we also have to frame the debate, as the GOP does so well. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #37

There's very little overlap to the right from Democrats. JHan Oct 2017 #38

One counterarguemnt for your citation is the ACA, or "Obamacare" as it is framed. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #40

Yes, and you're right.. JHan Oct 2017 #41

And the motivation, the root of THAT particular backlash was open racism. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #43

Definitely, the racism among tea partiers was so obvious. JHan Oct 2017 #44

yes exactly. It was a a respectable strategy. Now we know it doesn't work. We know there is no JCanete Oct 2017 #48

ok.. so... JHan Oct 2017 #49

One of the problems we face often is our politicians suggesting to us JCanete Oct 2017 #54

ACA is not 'the same' as Heritage. "The Heritage Plan *Was* The Conservative Alternate to the ACA" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #69

Thanks for that correction and the clarification! JHan Oct 2017 #75

The Heritage plan came first. It was embodied in Romneycare. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #84

Did the ACA kill Medicaid or turn Medicare into a voucher system? No emulatorloo Oct 2017 #97

The ACA was built on a Heritage Foundation model. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #98

"Built on" does not mean "teh same" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #101

I never said that they were identical in scope or intent. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #102

Who said the ACA didn't subsidize the insurance industry? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #104

Nobody on the left is actually against fixing K-12. It's just that by itself, that isn't enough. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #86

You believe a lack of college education renders secondary and primary education irrelevant? LanternWaste Oct 2017 #87

A good primary and secondary education is of value. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #91

I never argued that anyone on the left is against fixing k-12..... JHan Oct 2017 #88

I guess what bothers me(and I'm sorry if my response was harsh in tone) Ken Burch Oct 2017 #92

I mentioned the 2015 fed reserve study, it's worth reading...adding to that tho.. JHan Oct 2017 #95

Thank you. I will go to the links and read that. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #96

Q: Where does the book say that? A: It doesn't. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #68

From the original post: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #83

Your "spin" has little to do with the quote. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #99

aAnd your attempt at framing my response is noted. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #100

Of course the quote is accurate. Your "spin" is a logical leap you've made that is not emulatorloo Oct 2017 #103

I think HRC might have a unique perspective on the matter. lapucelle Oct 2017 #39

the flawed thing was nonsense.. JHan Oct 2017 #42

It should be acknowledged though, that there is a distinction between compromising JCanete Oct 2017 #47

American Prospect: "No, Obamacare Wasn't a "Republican" Proposal" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #67

Interesting, thanks. That is absolutely a distinction. I'd assumed it was worse than Obamacare, but JCanete Oct 2017 #71

Thank you for educating people here on the ACA vs Heritage Foundation Plan. ehrnst Oct 2017 #73

Yep, even I forgot . There's enough misinformation about the ACA out there already JHan Oct 2017 #76

Well, perhaps your definition of "compromise" is the real issue. ehrnst Oct 2017 #72

I certainly don't always know. Sometimes I'm wrong. I'm not interested in going to the grave being JCanete Oct 2017 #78

Again with the strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #79

I wasn't saying you were actually saying anybody was advocating for a coup. I was saying JCanete Oct 2017 #80

I appreciate your candor. ehrnst Oct 2017 #81

Yep..data driven policy , based on evidence. JHan Oct 2017 #94

K&R Jamaal510 Oct 2017 #58

K&R Gothmog Oct 2017 #89