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JHan

(10,173 posts)

107. You have to put those challenges in context..it seems you don't want to..

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 05:06 PM

Oct 2017

Healthcare reform cost the Democratic Party the majority they had, I am younger than you and I know of the lobbying by the American Medical Association and other bodies against what became known as "hillarycare" . Then the republicans had their "revolution", under Gingrich, and a Democratic President had to work with a Republican Congress. Doesn't this story sound familiar?

What the article hints at as well, is that Bill was triangulating at a certain time where some cultural tension was taking place which was part of the "whitelash" against civil rights- A "Whitelash" lee atwater took advantage of in the 70's and which propelled Republicans into a strong political position for decades.

You're talking about this as if Clinton had grand options as a President with Gingrich, or would you have rather him to have stonewalled and risk a Republican being elected in '96?

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"Making the perfect the enemy of the good." [View all] JHan Oct 2017 OP

Hillary is soooo right on target with this excerpt! nt. Amimnoch Oct 2017 #1

Yep, it's a good explanation of game theory in action JHan Oct 2017 #8

Great excerpt, thanks. Hillary's got it! George II Oct 2017 #2

I believe Hillary was referring to Susan Sarandon... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #115

Boy How Often Have We Heard That Lately Me. Oct 2017 #3

there are so many good bits in the book. JHan Oct 2017 #6

It Will Never Be Enough For Some Me. Oct 2017 #9

Ain't that the truth?! (Great lyrics you quoted, BTW!) NurseJackie Oct 2017 #112

Wow! sheshe2 Oct 2017 #4

Perfectionism/ dualistic thinking are never positive. ehrnst Oct 2017 #5

++++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #7

K&R betsuni Oct 2017 #10

K & R SunSeeker Oct 2017 #11

One disagreement BainsBane Oct 2017 #12

Some will say you're being harsh but I agree with your assessment. JHan Oct 2017 #15

This. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #20

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #31

A big thumbs up! justhanginon Oct 2017 #30

Obviously, it is wrong to say that there's NO difference between the two parties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #13

Good Grief Could You Twist Her Words Any More Than You Have JUst Done Me. Oct 2017 #16

Not about her-about the way that phrase"don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"- Ken Burch Oct 2017 #17

Again with the strawmen and hyperbole ehrnst Oct 2017 #19

NO-and that itself is a strawmen. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #22

No, it's not a strawman. It's a response to a strawman.... ehrnst Oct 2017 #24

It's not as though the only possiblities are being "dualistic" Ken Burch Oct 2017 #26

I think your post just indicated ehrnst Oct 2017 #27

No, not "any compromise"...I'll clarify Ken Burch Oct 2017 #35

Come on Ken... JHan Oct 2017 #46

You're assuming I only care about what I want, that it's about ego with me. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #50

well.. JHan Oct 2017 #51

Petty? ehrnst Oct 2017 #62

Very Informative post ++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #74

I'm well aware that the LGBTQ community were excluded from that act. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #85

Because every decision, every piece of legislation has a numerical metric of over or under 50% ehrnst Oct 2017 #59

You didn't read the post you're replying to? betsuni Oct 2017 #60

We need our victories where we can get them, I suppose. ehrnst Oct 2017 #63

Big big sale, the biggest. At these prices we're practically giving them away! betsuni Oct 2017 #64

I did read it. I wanted to clarify that it's not a comparable situation Ken Burch Oct 2017 #82

Which is why I said that I knew that....in my post. ehrnst Oct 2017 #90

Like I Said Me. Oct 2017 #25

..... (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #66

This+1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #77

It's helpful to avoid false equivalencies and strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #18

That phrase "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" goes back to the Nineties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #21

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" goes back even farther than the '90's ehrnst Oct 2017 #23

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #28

I know it goes back to Voltaire, but it became a party maxim in the Nineties. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #29

Very well said. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #33

Nonsense, Ken. The same was said about LBJ and FDR in their own times. bettyellen Oct 2017 #53

I think you might be very disappointed to learn about the Civil Rights act of 1964 ehrnst Oct 2017 #65

Woah. +1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #34

The politics of the 90's was very different... JHan Oct 2017 #105

It was a different time. But for a lot of us, it's a big thing to want to be sure... Ken Burch Oct 2017 #106

You have to put those challenges in context..it seems you don't want to.. JHan Oct 2017 #107

"Those politics" I dont know whether to laugh or cry Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #108

Selective history but this is what is at the heart of the discontent.. JHan Oct 2017 #110

That would be hard. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #109

I'm not talking about Bill here as much as I am about the future. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #111

Well, I do agree Dems could have done much better to sell H/C legislation to the public.. JHan Oct 2017 #113

"Tearing allies down gives ammo to their opponents..." Yes indeed. I'd also add... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #114

Ken. Blue_true Oct 2017 #45

Agreed. Your observation and description are right on target. NurseJackie Oct 2017 #116

For a refreshing change, why not blame Republicans for Republican-majority legislation betsuni Oct 2017 #52

There are few if any situations where Democratic presidents HAVE to sign Republican legislation. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #55

Hillary's strategy was to help senate candidate and gov races.... bettyellen Oct 2017 #56

I'm not attacking Hillary here, or at all. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #57

I never know what you're talking about. betsuni Oct 2017 #61

### NurseJackie Oct 2017 #117

Sorry Ken, your misinterpretation of HRC's point/words seems like a real stretch to me. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #70

I did say I agree fully with what she says in the last line quoted in the OP. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #93

Exactly. brer cat Oct 2017 #14

This fragment: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #32

Compromise is not betrayal JHan Oct 2017 #36

But we also have to frame the debate, as the GOP does so well. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #37

There's very little overlap to the right from Democrats. JHan Oct 2017 #38

One counterarguemnt for your citation is the ACA, or "Obamacare" as it is framed. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #40

Yes, and you're right.. JHan Oct 2017 #41

And the motivation, the root of THAT particular backlash was open racism. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #43

Definitely, the racism among tea partiers was so obvious. JHan Oct 2017 #44

yes exactly. It was a a respectable strategy. Now we know it doesn't work. We know there is no JCanete Oct 2017 #48

ok.. so... JHan Oct 2017 #49

One of the problems we face often is our politicians suggesting to us JCanete Oct 2017 #54

ACA is not 'the same' as Heritage. "The Heritage Plan *Was* The Conservative Alternate to the ACA" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #69

Thanks for that correction and the clarification! JHan Oct 2017 #75

The Heritage plan came first. It was embodied in Romneycare. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #84

Did the ACA kill Medicaid or turn Medicare into a voucher system? No emulatorloo Oct 2017 #97

The ACA was built on a Heritage Foundation model. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #98

"Built on" does not mean "teh same" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #101

I never said that they were identical in scope or intent. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #102

Who said the ACA didn't subsidize the insurance industry? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #104

Nobody on the left is actually against fixing K-12. It's just that by itself, that isn't enough. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #86

You believe a lack of college education renders secondary and primary education irrelevant? LanternWaste Oct 2017 #87

A good primary and secondary education is of value. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #91

I never argued that anyone on the left is against fixing k-12..... JHan Oct 2017 #88

I guess what bothers me(and I'm sorry if my response was harsh in tone) Ken Burch Oct 2017 #92

I mentioned the 2015 fed reserve study, it's worth reading...adding to that tho.. JHan Oct 2017 #95

Thank you. I will go to the links and read that. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #96

Q: Where does the book say that? A: It doesn't. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #68

From the original post: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #83

Your "spin" has little to do with the quote. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #99

aAnd your attempt at framing my response is noted. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #100

Of course the quote is accurate. Your "spin" is a logical leap you've made that is not emulatorloo Oct 2017 #103

I think HRC might have a unique perspective on the matter. lapucelle Oct 2017 #39

the flawed thing was nonsense.. JHan Oct 2017 #42

It should be acknowledged though, that there is a distinction between compromising JCanete Oct 2017 #47

American Prospect: "No, Obamacare Wasn't a "Republican" Proposal" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #67

Interesting, thanks. That is absolutely a distinction. I'd assumed it was worse than Obamacare, but JCanete Oct 2017 #71

Thank you for educating people here on the ACA vs Heritage Foundation Plan. ehrnst Oct 2017 #73

Yep, even I forgot . There's enough misinformation about the ACA out there already JHan Oct 2017 #76

Well, perhaps your definition of "compromise" is the real issue. ehrnst Oct 2017 #72

I certainly don't always know. Sometimes I'm wrong. I'm not interested in going to the grave being JCanete Oct 2017 #78

Again with the strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #79

I wasn't saying you were actually saying anybody was advocating for a coup. I was saying JCanete Oct 2017 #80

I appreciate your candor. ehrnst Oct 2017 #81

Yep..data driven policy , based on evidence. JHan Oct 2017 #94

K&R Jamaal510 Oct 2017 #58

K&R Gothmog Oct 2017 #89