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JHan

(10,173 posts)
113. Well, I do agree Dems could have done much better to sell H/C legislation to the public..
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 10:25 AM
Oct 2017

Instead, the Republicans often framed the narrative. The Republicans pushed a lot of disinformation about the ACA, to this day there's still confusion about the ACA. But beyond that..

One of the many things I like about Hillary's book is how she well she understands the opposition: in some paragraphs before the famous Sanders excerpt which made the rounds on the internet, she explains that it's not *JUST* money in politics we must be worried about. Money is merely a means to an end: The real battle is ideological. Any progress Democrats undertake will be met with well-heeled, synchronized opposition.

This is why comparisons between eras don't help anyone, governance is more transparent these days. There's also a lot more noise and more data. In the vast eco-system of modern media, how do you compete with your opponents and ensure your message penetrates that noise, how do you weaken the efforts of your opponents to weaponize data against you and influence opinion? We're in a meme war, as trivial as that sounds it's true. Republicans can drop little soundbites like "small government" ,"don't let D.C tell you what to do", and every variation of "state dependency" they can find, and they'll know it will appeal to the inherent hyper-individualism embedded in the American psyche, even if their actual policies harm people in the process.

3) All aspects of these campaigns must involve grassroots activists and keep them fully in the loop about strategy and proposals. Any victory we win depends on the creation and maintenance of enthusiasm, and actual respect for the grassroots is the only way to get that.


I don't know which grassroots activists you're thinking off but organized Activists on the ground understand the system and know how to agitate for change. They're the ones doing the hard work. Yes, respect is required all around, and an understanding that you don't tear allies down. Tearing allies down gives ammo to their opponents, who are also your opponents. Calling allies "shills" and "corporatist" "neoliberal" and most ridiculous of all "establishment" doesn't help. In other words, we don't need a repeat of 2016.
Hillary is soooo right on target with this excerpt! nt. Amimnoch Oct 2017 #1
Yep, it's a good explanation of game theory in action JHan Oct 2017 #8
Great excerpt, thanks. Hillary's got it! George II Oct 2017 #2
I believe Hillary was referring to Susan Sarandon... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #115
Boy How Often Have We Heard That Lately Me. Oct 2017 #3
there are so many good bits in the book. JHan Oct 2017 #6
It Will Never Be Enough For Some Me. Oct 2017 #9
Ain't that the truth?! (Great lyrics you quoted, BTW!) NurseJackie Oct 2017 #112
Wow! sheshe2 Oct 2017 #4
Perfectionism/ dualistic thinking are never positive. ehrnst Oct 2017 #5
++++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #7
K&R betsuni Oct 2017 #10
K & R SunSeeker Oct 2017 #11
One disagreement BainsBane Oct 2017 #12
Some will say you're being harsh but I agree with your assessment. JHan Oct 2017 #15
This. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #20
+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #31
A big thumbs up! justhanginon Oct 2017 #30
Obviously, it is wrong to say that there's NO difference between the two parties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #13
Good Grief Could You Twist Her Words Any More Than You Have JUst Done Me. Oct 2017 #16
Not about her-about the way that phrase"don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"- Ken Burch Oct 2017 #17
Again with the strawmen and hyperbole ehrnst Oct 2017 #19
NO-and that itself is a strawmen. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #22
No, it's not a strawman. It's a response to a strawman.... ehrnst Oct 2017 #24
It's not as though the only possiblities are being "dualistic" Ken Burch Oct 2017 #26
I think your post just indicated ehrnst Oct 2017 #27
No, not "any compromise"...I'll clarify Ken Burch Oct 2017 #35
Come on Ken... JHan Oct 2017 #46
You're assuming I only care about what I want, that it's about ego with me. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #50
well.. JHan Oct 2017 #51
Petty? ehrnst Oct 2017 #62
Very Informative post ++++++ JHan Oct 2017 #74
I'm well aware that the LGBTQ community were excluded from that act. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #85
Because every decision, every piece of legislation has a numerical metric of over or under 50% ehrnst Oct 2017 #59
You didn't read the post you're replying to? betsuni Oct 2017 #60
We need our victories where we can get them, I suppose. ehrnst Oct 2017 #63
Big big sale, the biggest. At these prices we're practically giving them away! betsuni Oct 2017 #64
I did read it. I wanted to clarify that it's not a comparable situation Ken Burch Oct 2017 #82
Which is why I said that I knew that....in my post. ehrnst Oct 2017 #90
Like I Said Me. Oct 2017 #25
..... (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #66
This+1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #77
It's helpful to avoid false equivalencies and strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #18
That phrase "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" goes back to the Nineties Ken Burch Oct 2017 #21
"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" goes back even farther than the '90's ehrnst Oct 2017 #23
+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #28
I know it goes back to Voltaire, but it became a party maxim in the Nineties. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #29
Very well said. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #33
Nonsense, Ken. The same was said about LBJ and FDR in their own times. bettyellen Oct 2017 #53
I think you might be very disappointed to learn about the Civil Rights act of 1964 ehrnst Oct 2017 #65
Woah. +1000 sheshe2 Oct 2017 #34
The politics of the 90's was very different... JHan Oct 2017 #105
It was a different time. But for a lot of us, it's a big thing to want to be sure... Ken Burch Oct 2017 #106
You have to put those challenges in context..it seems you don't want to.. JHan Oct 2017 #107
"Those politics" I dont know whether to laugh or cry Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #108
Selective history but this is what is at the heart of the discontent.. JHan Oct 2017 #110
That would be hard. (nt) ehrnst Oct 2017 #109
I'm not talking about Bill here as much as I am about the future. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #111
Well, I do agree Dems could have done much better to sell H/C legislation to the public.. JHan Oct 2017 #113
"Tearing allies down gives ammo to their opponents..." Yes indeed. I'd also add... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #114
Ken. Blue_true Oct 2017 #45
Agreed. Your observation and description are right on target. NurseJackie Oct 2017 #116
For a refreshing change, why not blame Republicans for Republican-majority legislation betsuni Oct 2017 #52
There are few if any situations where Democratic presidents HAVE to sign Republican legislation. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #55
Hillary's strategy was to help senate candidate and gov races.... bettyellen Oct 2017 #56
I'm not attacking Hillary here, or at all. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #57
I never know what you're talking about. betsuni Oct 2017 #61
### NurseJackie Oct 2017 #117
Sorry Ken, your misinterpretation of HRC's point/words seems like a real stretch to me. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #70
I did say I agree fully with what she says in the last line quoted in the OP. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #93
Exactly. brer cat Oct 2017 #14
This fragment: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #32
Compromise is not betrayal JHan Oct 2017 #36
But we also have to frame the debate, as the GOP does so well. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #37
There's very little overlap to the right from Democrats. JHan Oct 2017 #38
One counterarguemnt for your citation is the ACA, or "Obamacare" as it is framed. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #40
Yes, and you're right.. JHan Oct 2017 #41
And the motivation, the root of THAT particular backlash was open racism. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #43
Definitely, the racism among tea partiers was so obvious. JHan Oct 2017 #44
yes exactly. It was a a respectable strategy. Now we know it doesn't work. We know there is no JCanete Oct 2017 #48
ok.. so... JHan Oct 2017 #49
One of the problems we face often is our politicians suggesting to us JCanete Oct 2017 #54
ACA is not 'the same' as Heritage. "The Heritage Plan *Was* The Conservative Alternate to the ACA" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #69
Thanks for that correction and the clarification! JHan Oct 2017 #75
The Heritage plan came first. It was embodied in Romneycare. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #84
Did the ACA kill Medicaid or turn Medicare into a voucher system? No emulatorloo Oct 2017 #97
The ACA was built on a Heritage Foundation model. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #98
"Built on" does not mean "teh same" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #101
I never said that they were identical in scope or intent. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #102
Who said the ACA didn't subsidize the insurance industry? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #104
Nobody on the left is actually against fixing K-12. It's just that by itself, that isn't enough. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #86
You believe a lack of college education renders secondary and primary education irrelevant? LanternWaste Oct 2017 #87
A good primary and secondary education is of value. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #91
I never argued that anyone on the left is against fixing k-12..... JHan Oct 2017 #88
I guess what bothers me(and I'm sorry if my response was harsh in tone) Ken Burch Oct 2017 #92
I mentioned the 2015 fed reserve study, it's worth reading...adding to that tho.. JHan Oct 2017 #95
Thank you. I will go to the links and read that. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #96
Q: Where does the book say that? A: It doesn't. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #68
From the original post: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #83
Your "spin" has little to do with the quote. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #99
aAnd your attempt at framing my response is noted. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #100
Of course the quote is accurate. Your "spin" is a logical leap you've made that is not emulatorloo Oct 2017 #103
I think HRC might have a unique perspective on the matter. lapucelle Oct 2017 #39
the flawed thing was nonsense.. JHan Oct 2017 #42
It should be acknowledged though, that there is a distinction between compromising JCanete Oct 2017 #47
American Prospect: "No, Obamacare Wasn't a "Republican" Proposal" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #67
Interesting, thanks. That is absolutely a distinction. I'd assumed it was worse than Obamacare, but JCanete Oct 2017 #71
Thank you for educating people here on the ACA vs Heritage Foundation Plan. ehrnst Oct 2017 #73
Yep, even I forgot . There's enough misinformation about the ACA out there already JHan Oct 2017 #76
Well, perhaps your definition of "compromise" is the real issue. ehrnst Oct 2017 #72
I certainly don't always know. Sometimes I'm wrong. I'm not interested in going to the grave being JCanete Oct 2017 #78
Again with the strawmen... ehrnst Oct 2017 #79
I wasn't saying you were actually saying anybody was advocating for a coup. I was saying JCanete Oct 2017 #80
I appreciate your candor. ehrnst Oct 2017 #81
Yep..data driven policy , based on evidence. JHan Oct 2017 #94
K&R Jamaal510 Oct 2017 #58
K&R Gothmog Oct 2017 #89
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