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MineralMan

(150,522 posts)
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:46 AM Jul 2012

Some Thoughts on Buying a Kia Soul Yesterday [View all]

After a couple of very production-robbing days of dealing with our 21-year-old Volvo, and several hours of crawling under it to make repairs, my wife and I decided that it was finally time to actually move into the 21st century and buy a brand new car. It had to meet several requirements. It had to seat four comfortably, have air conditioning, and have a great warranty. It also had to be priced under $15,000 for us to cope with the cost. If we were going to buy a brand new car, it would have to be one we'd own for ten years or so. I wanted my choice to be an American-made car. We're all dealing with this down economy, so that was on our minds.

We decided to interrupt our work schedules for two days and focus on this challenge and get it taken care of. Like all car buyers, we started online, searching for 2012 or 2013 cars that met all of our criteria. Since price was a deal-breaker, we started with Edmunds and got their list of new cars priced under $15,000. A baker's dozen or so vehicles, from a number of manufacturers were all that turned up. Then, we started making comparisons between them. Most were small economy cars. Very small. We're both getting older and small and cramped doesn't suit us very well, so we eliminated several on that basis. The hatchback category seemed the best match, in terms of space.

Since our price limitations meant that we'd be buying a base model, we then looked for cars that had the most features in our price range, with air conditioning being a must. That eliminated some others. Looking at available included warranties, we discovered that most of these economy cars had drivetrain warranties in the 5 year/50,000 mile category.

We got the list down to three cars. Theoretically, those we should have been able to look at that fit our criteria were:

The 2012 Ford Fiesta Hatchback: It had air conditioning, and appeared that it would have enough room, but had only a 5 year/50,000 mile drivetrain warranty.
The 2012 Chevy Sonic Hatchback: Same air conditioning, and maybe enough room, with a 5 year/100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.
The 2012/2013 Kia Soul: Air. Lots of room. 10 year/100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.

Two American manufacturers and one Korean manufacturer. While Kia builds some of its cars in the US, the Soul is built in South Korea. We read user reviews, magazine reviews, etc. for all three cars, although the 2013 Soul hadn't been reviewed yet. It's close enough to the 2012, though, with only minor changes. All of the cars got decent or better reviews from owners and from the other sources. The Soul excelled in the safety ratings, beating the other two, probably due to its size, included stability control system and air bag systems.

Next step was to find a dealer with cars in stock. This is where it all broke down. Searching every Ford and Chevrolet dealer in the entire Twin Cities metro area of MN, not a single base Fiesta or Sonic could be found. We made calls, too. Nope. Every dealer only had models with trim upgrades and other options that bumped the sticker price well over our $15,000 limit. There was not a base model of either car available. Not one.

Different story with the Kia dealers. They all had several base models of the Soul, and in the 2013 model year. All under $15,000. We called the closest dealer, about 6 miles away, and set up an appointment to test drive one. We went, drove the car, and found it to be plenty roomy, easy to enter and exit, and with a quiet, comfortable ride. Nice air conditioning, and HWY mileage rated at up to 35 MPG. Air conditioning and a 6-speed manual transmission, plus a bunch of other standard features that were welcome. Cockpit ergonomics were excellent, and the thing even has bluetooth connectivity and a built-in hands-off cell phone interface, with steering wheel buttons.

I had checked on incentives and discounts online, and discovered a $500 discount for veterans, so we had put my DD 214 in with the financial records we'd need, since we're self-employed. There was another discount for financing through the Kia system and a third, so-called "Bonus Cash" discount that expired on July 31. We didn't qualify for the recent college graduate discount of $750, since it's been over 30 years since either of us graduated. Anyhow, the sales guy left us along to talk about it. We liked the oddball look of the car, and the 10 year/100,000 mile warranty suits our style of keeping cars for long periods. Looked like our search was done.

So, we went into the showroom and told the sales guy that we wanted the car. Now, there's not much bargaining room on these econoboxes, but the discounts were voluntarily disclosed by the sales guy and I asked about the veteran's discount. He asked if I had my DD214, so I handed it to him. We told him how much we had for a down payment and what our maximum monthly payment would have to be and he disappeared for a while after we filled out the short credit application. When he returned a few minutes later, he had a purchase agreement, including all of the discounts, plus an additional $200 discount he hadn't mentioned to us. We had specified a base model, but this one had one trim item that was optional. They knocked that cost off. Since our credit scores are in the excellent range, the Kia system financing wasn't an issue, and our documentation wasn't needed. The price was down to just over $13,000, plus licence, registration, etc. The payment was well below our maximum. We signed, and got shown to a lounge area that served both the showroom and the service department to wait for the paperwork to be completed.

Anyhow, we drove off in the car about an hour and a half after getting to the dealership. No hard sell on any of the extended warranty things, although we did purchase their free regular service package, which includes all of the oil changes, other scheduled maintenance, etc. for the lifetime of our ownership. That added $8/mo to the payment. The car was delivered full of fuel and freshly-washed and we went home. The odometer read 8 miles when we left the dealership, most of that from our test drive.

I had reservations about buying a non-US made car for obvious reasons having to do with labor issues. However, as I was sitting in that customer lounge, which wasn't showing Fox News, by the way, I watched as a couple of dozen employees of this dealership passed by, including several service workers who came into the lounge to tell people what was going on with their car. I also talked to several people waiting in the lounge, and asked them about their experience with the dealership. All good reports and people seemed to really like their Kias. So, there were American workers earning their living around these Korean import cars. That helped.

I would probably have bought the Ford or Chevy in preference to the Kia, just for the labor reasons and despite the shorter warranties, but there were none to be found. Not a single base model of either in the area. I couldn't buy what didn't exist, and we needed a car then, not sometime down the road. So, I now own a Kia Soul. Oh, well. It drives well, works well, has an excellent warranty, and it was available at a dealership that seems to be thriving and has employees who all seemed to be in good moods. Nice car. Nice people. I guess we'll just drive the car for 10 years, and see what the situation is after that.

Oh, yeah. I read that the Kia Soul is a hipster car, so I guess I'm a hipster now. My niece, on Facebook, commented on my post about the new car by sending me to a youtube link with a Kia Soul ad featuring some human-sized gangsta hamsters. Somehow, I don't think my wife and I are the target demographic for this car.


262 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just remember, when you resell it... Iggo Jul 2012 #1
I'm a godless atheist. I have no soul. MineralMan Jul 2012 #5
+1 sarcasmo Jul 2012 #80
LOL +++ 1,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 Jul 2012 #202
! CreekDog Jul 2012 #79
His Soul is safe. Nobody in their right mind would buy a used Kia. LeftyMom Jul 2012 #192
I rented one for a week last year, cloudbase Jul 2012 #2
OK. I'm sure it's not for everyone. MineralMan Jul 2012 #3
To each their own--had both a Kia and a couple of Aveos Maeve Jul 2012 #38
A killed in action soul? I'll pass. Scuba Jul 2012 #4
I hadn't thought of that one. MineralMan Jul 2012 #6
We LOVE LOVE LOVE our Amanti SoCalDem Jul 2012 #7
We only drive 3-4000 miles a year. MineralMan Jul 2012 #8
Yoiks! I am driving 3000 miles a month. madinmaryland Jul 2012 #128
It's one of the few benefits of freelancing. MineralMan Jul 2012 #133
I have a Rio hatchback LoveMyCali Jul 2012 #155
I have one, also, and routinely have a six footer as a passenger Warpy Jul 2012 #157
american manufacturers hate selling base models. madrchsod Jul 2012 #9
Apparently so. MineralMan Jul 2012 #11
Right, they may not make a lot of margin on the base model... Salviati Jul 2012 #127
That's true enough, certainly. MineralMan Jul 2012 #131
It's OK, as long as you're not a hipster doofus... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #10
I hope not, MineralMan Jul 2012 #13
I've discovered that LG (another korean company) leads in warranties. phantom power Jul 2012 #12
Chrysler had a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. MineralMan Jul 2012 #14
I've resolved to look harder at American cars, whenever we next purchase phantom power Jul 2012 #15
Yeah. I really wanted to buy an American car, but nothing was available MineralMan Jul 2012 #17
We boughtr a Hyundai a couple of years ago Plucketeer Jul 2012 #107
LG used to be "Lucky Goldstar"... a maker of crapola cheap electronics. They "re-branded" themselves Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #87
Just about every car that uses a timing belt has a belt change as a MineralMan Jul 2012 #117
Since I deliver these vehicles to dealers on a regular basis... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #16
Yup. Every car sold means people are working. MineralMan Jul 2012 #18
LOL. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #21
Thanks for supporting American workers! It's always been clear how much you care. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #19
I cannot buy what I cannot find. MineralMan Jul 2012 #22
Same here. I would support my fellow Americans. But it's inconvenient, so I don't bother. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #23
+1, I couldn't of said it any better. crazyjoe Jul 2012 #228
Anyhow, I could've predicted what you would choose without reading this thread. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #24
Well, apparently you commented without reading it, too. MineralMan Jul 2012 #26
I read it. Not impressed. And from a self-avowed "Party Leader"? Romulox Jul 2012 #27
I'm not a "Party Leader." MineralMan Jul 2012 #32
Indeed not. I wouldn't work with you if you pulled up in that thing. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #33
OK. I'll just walk the precinct without you, then. MineralMan Jul 2012 #36
Park FAR away, so that you can ask people "WHERE ARE THE JOBS???" without inviting snickers. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #37
You should drive through my precinct. Most of the people I talk to are driving MineralMan Jul 2012 #39
They can't make that connection pintobean Jul 2012 #54
Precisely Sherman A1 Jul 2012 #67
Thanks. MineralMan Jul 2012 #103
Ford came out with a new hb that I wanted to test drive. I waited and waited for the cars to comeout Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #185
In my experience, Dealers can have the car delivered from other dealers if they don't have it. n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #73
It's called a "Dealer Trade" and they don't always happen all that quickly. A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #119
You couldn't order one? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #90
Nope. My current car was broken and can't be fixed for a week. MineralMan Jul 2012 #104
I imagine the sales people and service techs at the dealership were indeed, American workers LanternWaste Jul 2012 #71
Having read the sub-thread that follows this comment, I just have a couple things.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #130
+1000 baldguy Jul 2012 #217
Yes, expecting people to walk the walk is so tacky. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #221
OH, bullshit. A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #232
LOL. I loooove this new kind of argument: How do we KNOW his car was made in Korea? HOW??? Romulox Jul 2012 #235
Political "philosophy" is useless without action. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #261
Are you surfing the web with an American made computer? tabasco Jul 2012 #179
I built my own computer. What's your next move? Romulox Jul 2012 #182
Components manufactured in West Virginia - no doubt! tabasco Jul 2012 #189
Goalposts, moved! I support buying domestic, union-made product when readily available. Romulox Jul 2012 #194
Is there a union made domestic car roody Jul 2012 #198
As always, I care precisely as much about the environment as you do about US workers! Romulox Jul 2012 #206
Does that mean no? roody Jul 2012 #211
Let's be for real. If you're like most, you went with scab-mobile WAY before you went Romulox Jul 2012 #236
LOL. Yes, by you ------> "Readily available." tabasco Jul 2012 #199
Except Fords and Chevy's made in the US, by UAW workers are readily available. MM couldn't bother. Romulox Jul 2012 #205
Built your own - presumably b/c you couldn't find one Made In the USA by Union Labor? baldguy Jul 2012 #218
No that wasn't his problem, that was his excuse. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #220
What you're doing is ignoring the realities of our modern capitalist consumer culture. baldguy Jul 2012 #224
Unfortunately, you have to twist the truth to make your argument. US made cars aren't "unavailable" Romulox Jul 2012 #233
Just more bullshit. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #262
This message was self-deleted by its author Union Scribe Jul 2012 #219
Funny story a few years back when we were stationed at Ft Campbell we decided we southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #20
Yeah. The entry point is somewhere between about $13-15000. MineralMan Jul 2012 #25
My first car was a Volkswagon too. I dad co-signed for me. At that time my car cost southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #83
I worked for a gas station owner/car dealer in Santa MineralMan Jul 2012 #94
Wow that is a neat story. But he couldn't do that today. southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #105
I'm sure you're right. I'm not sure how he did it then, but he did. MineralMan Jul 2012 #118
yes your right that today it couldn't happen. southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #124
You must have been one of the lucky ones. Or maybe it was the climate. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #93
I guess we were very lucky. We had that car almost 5 yrs. We would have kept it if we could southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #106
What color? Black?..........Free Sirius radio?.......... mrmpa Jul 2012 #28
Yes. Black. That wouldn't normally be my choice of colors, MineralMan Jul 2012 #30
Check out "Left" Radio, Sirius station 127.......... mrmpa Jul 2012 #74
Trouble is that I'm rarely in the car during that time slot. MineralMan Jul 2012 #85
It's all progressive Talk Radio, no matter what time you listen to it...check it out. eom mrmpa Jul 2012 #156
WCCO is the only place to turn for severe weather coverage--pretty much always has been. Thegonagle Jul 2012 #225
I'm disappointed in your choice. Robb Jul 2012 #29
I didn't have days. My Volvo is still broken, and MineralMan Jul 2012 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Romulox Jul 2012 #34
And what's really gross is that you are OBVIOUSLY wanting this attention, or you wouldn't have made Romulox Jul 2012 #35
Sorry, those don't sound like very good excuses. Robb Jul 2012 #49
I don't buy new cars. This is my first, at age 66. MineralMan Jul 2012 #55
In the first paragraph of your story, you say "I wanted my choice to be an American-made car." Robb Jul 2012 #61
Yes, I would have preferred an American-made car. MineralMan Jul 2012 #77
Your new car wasn't assembled by union labor. Robb Jul 2012 #102
I don't know, is that any worse than the sort of "conditional support for labour"... Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #201
What you say makes sense Robb Jul 2012 #203
How much domestic content goes into the average US car? Do you know? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #204
Except that the ENTIRETY of the Toyota, VW, Mercedes, Hyundai production in the US in non-union. Romulox Jul 2012 #207
They have a bottomless pit of excuses. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #222
He got caught up in his own web of lies. That posters couldn't give a damn about US workers. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #234
VWs and Mercedes are produced in the US under conditions which would be criminal in Germany. Romulox Jul 2012 #208
most dealers will find a way to lend you a car if you're waiting for delivery. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #75
I drive an import too. Panasonic Jul 2012 #129
9% financing??? No offense, but you should be asking for advice, not giving it. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #250
I don't think the brand name of your car is a moral choice CreekDog Jul 2012 #84
Thank you. SheilaT Jul 2012 #89
And we get tired of people just talking the talk Union Scribe Jul 2012 #154
Until an effective tariff of that nature is in place, it's absolutely a moral choice. Robb Jul 2012 #100
So, a non-union made Ford from Mexico is better than union made Honda from Ohio? baldguy Jul 2012 #226
Thankfully not a choice you have to make. Thanks to UAW! Robb Jul 2012 #229
I love my Kia Sedona mcar Jul 2012 #40
The dealer profit isn't in the price; the dealer profit is in the finance agreement. FarCenter Jul 2012 #41
Yup. Dealers love buyers who don't know any better. REP Jul 2012 #44
No early payoff penalty on my loan, either. MineralMan Jul 2012 #47
Compared to the 1.9% my credit union is offering, yeah, it's not great. REP Jul 2012 #62
I'm sure that's true, especially in this price range of cars. MineralMan Jul 2012 #45
The base Honda Fit would be about $1000 more FarCenter Jul 2012 #51
I did look at the Honda Fit at all the Honda dealers. MineralMan Jul 2012 #52
Good Buy Writely Wrong Jul 2012 #42
The Base model has 15" wheels, and MineralMan Jul 2012 #46
The PT Cruiser had the same effect. They were marketed heavily to the MineralMan Jul 2012 #48
hope she has good luck with it... belcffub Jul 2012 #56
I know two people who have them. No problems. MineralMan Jul 2012 #69
Make that 3 people--I have 91K on mine, and NO problems at all. nt Lex Jul 2012 #151
Sorry, but I disagree. I have 91,000 mi on my PT Cruiser and NO problems. Lex Jul 2012 #150
They were designed by a special team within Chrysler dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #95
Prowlers are still bringing high prices, it seems. MineralMan Jul 2012 #97
Thank God they didn't build it. bluedigger Jul 2012 #159
Dealer financing? Too bad they don't have credit unions where you live. REP Jul 2012 #43
Maybe maybe not. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #99
... I've never been that customer. REP Jul 2012 #116
The repo lots are filled with cars from people who were never "that" customer. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #158
I have access to a credit union thru my employer. Its rates suck. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #187
Yep. We used to beat credit union rates pretty handily. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #213
Sounds as if you approached this very thoughtfully. freethought Jul 2012 #50
It was the gyrating woodchuck hips, wasn't it? Edweird Jul 2012 #53
As someone who knows a lot about cars, the Kia pleasently surprises me. ryan_cats Jul 2012 #57
The Soul comes in three basic trim versions. MineralMan Jul 2012 #60
Kia had shitty electronics when they first came to the states. Don't know how they are now but ... Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #110
Long-term driver reviews on one site for 2010s and later are consistently good. MineralMan Jul 2012 #136
It's still a fucking Kia...Knock your knuckle against those body panels snooper2 Jul 2012 #58
That stuff is covered for 5 years/60,000. MineralMan Jul 2012 #65
Our 06' Grand Prix is a tank compared to a Soul :) snooper2 Jul 2012 #70
I'm not hard on cars, and we drive maybe 3-4000 miles a year. MineralMan Jul 2012 #81
Out on the west coast, the Kia Soul is considered a chick car musiclawyer Jul 2012 #59
Makes no difference to me. MineralMan Jul 2012 #63
Older women drivers - they love some Soul REP Jul 2012 #64
True with the PT Cruiser, too. MineralMan Jul 2012 #66
That's why it's called the Physical Therapy Cruiser! REP Jul 2012 #112
LOL! You're probably right. MineralMan Jul 2012 #120
In seattle it's a gangsta car, as well as the 300. n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #76
Ford closed its plant in Twin Cities last December. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #68
It did. The 80's Ranger I owned was a St. Paul build. MineralMan Jul 2012 #78
Super cute car..Tho no one in history has probably successfully used the "Drive train warranty. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #72
The Chrysler Corp. replaced a helluva lot of transmission MineralMan Jul 2012 #92
One other thought, if you don't have every single M-f-in' maint. receipt you will be screwed.. snooper2 Jul 2012 #98
Yep. Kia/Hyundai are famous for weaseling out on the drive warranty. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #113
No timing belt on this engine, and no replacement on the schedule. MineralMan Jul 2012 #115
Why would I not have that? Actually, MineralMan Jul 2012 #114
Chrysler Corporation also made miilions of the best 3 speed automatic ever made, the "Torqueflite". MightyMopar Jul 2012 #142
That's a good thing. They learned from their mistakes. MineralMan Jul 2012 #164
I like the shape of those. dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #82
Car names are weird. MineralMan Jul 2012 #86
Chevrolet Orlando is similar'ish dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #88
I don't think they do. MineralMan Jul 2012 #91
Get your own music with those too. dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #96
Don't ever complain about the economy MightyMopar Jul 2012 #101
You are incorrect about that. MineralMan Jul 2012 #125
funny how easily principles can be tossed aside when it comes to $$$$ DrDan Jul 2012 #108
IIRC, the Ford Fiesta isn't built in the US. flvegan Jul 2012 #109
When I was working as an organizer for a labor group, they wouldn't allow you to drive a foreign car limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #111
Love my Kia Soul vankuria Jul 2012 #121
Thanks. MineralMan Jul 2012 #126
I think that will be our next car. Panasonic Jul 2012 #122
You can get an off rental Chevy Cruze or Ford Focus get similar gas mileage for same price MightyMopar Jul 2012 #138
I drove the Ford Focus once Panasonic Jul 2012 #165
Thumbs down for not buying an AMERICAN car. Odin2005 Jul 2012 #123
A year ago I had a KIA rental car for several days, LOVE, LOVE LOVED it! You made a Raine Jul 2012 #132
Thanks! I think my wife likes it better than I do, MineralMan Jul 2012 #134
I love the new Optima. I really want an American brand but I'd heavily consider the Optima. Initech Jul 2012 #141
Friends don't let friends drive KIA Veruca Salt Jul 2012 #135
They should call those things Kia Seouls... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #137
To all the folks pissing and moaning about car choices, a little story: GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #139
So up until a couple years ago, KIA was complete junk. But that gets excused... Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #144
I remember someone I worked with buying a Hyundai in the 1980's - Last I checked GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #145
Maybe you should go back pintobean Jul 2012 #147
Only what I would have expected from you. GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #148
I'm heartbroken. pintobean Jul 2012 #149
Thank you so much, GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #152
Giant rapping hamsters? Who's the target demographic? People on large amounts of acid? Initech Jul 2012 #140
At least you'll fill up with American-made gasoline, kentauros Jul 2012 #143
Actually, I think most of the gasoline in Minnesota is refined in Canada. MineralMan Jul 2012 #168
The crude here is Canadian, but it's refined in the state. Thegonagle Jul 2012 #227
Thanks for that information. MineralMan Jul 2012 #231
Love my 2011 Base Model Soul OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #146
Thanks! MineralMan Jul 2012 #161
What I like most about it (and suspect you will, too) is that OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #166
I noticed the missing right arm rest yesterday. MineralMan Jul 2012 #167
I agree with Obama, we need to buy American! B Calm Jul 2012 #153
just curious - how do you feel about the "made in China" Olympic uniforms? DrDan Jul 2012 #160
Check the labels in your closet. MineralMan Jul 2012 #162
Yeah yeah yeah, bull. Union Scribe Jul 2012 #171
You can call bull all you want. MineralMan Jul 2012 #173
You invited all of this drama because you DESIRE DRAMA. Don't forget to delete the OP, btw! Romulox Jul 2012 #175
Why would I self-delete this thread? MineralMan Jul 2012 #180
Why would you self-delete the half dozen other attention-mongering threads you've started? Romulox Jul 2012 #184
I haven't self-deleted any OPs for over three months, and don't plan to MineralMan Jul 2012 #195
You're just FULL of promises to "never do THAT again," aren't you? It's fair to judge you by Romulox Jul 2012 #196
You can do whatever you want. MineralMan Jul 2012 #197
Thanks, but I don't need your permission. You're fooling very few here, anymore, save those who Romulox Jul 2012 #239
"Can" means that you have the physical ability to do something. MineralMan Jul 2012 #241
MM, post # 197: "I won't continue the back and forth with you any further." We see what a pledge Romulox Jul 2012 #243
Yes bull. Cell phones, really? Union Scribe Jul 2012 #216
Enjoy! Phentex Jul 2012 #163
"I wish I could" Union Scribe Jul 2012 #172
Do you? Are you independently wealthy? Phentex Jul 2012 #200
wtf? Why do you need to be wealthy to support US goods? Union Scribe Jul 2012 #214
I bought a 2012 Kia Soul last fall .... GOTV Jul 2012 #169
ACA/Obamacare will reduce about $3000 off that loaded price over time. Festivito Jul 2012 #170
There goes the "Romney supports outsourcing!" narrative. More than half of DU does, too. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #174
Any reason why you can't just buy a used car or better still Fruit of Islam Jul 2012 #176
The UAW thanks you for your support! JNelson6563 Jul 2012 #177
I like your list. tabasco Jul 2012 #178
My vehicles have to be at least assembled in a UAW plant. roamer65 Jul 2012 #181
Good choice. I test drove the Fiesta: cramped, backseat useless, cargo - seats don't fold down fully Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #183
Yeah, the ride's a little stiff and you feel small MineralMan Jul 2012 #191
The Ford Fiesta is actually made in Mexico. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #186
Ah, thanks. It doesn't sound like it would have MineralMan Jul 2012 #188
my SIL has a Kia Soul and loves it .. littlewolf Jul 2012 #190
That's what I'm seeing owners say, too. MineralMan Jul 2012 #193
Why we no have pensions??? nt Romulox Jul 2012 #209
Perfect. One must love it. Zanzoobar Jul 2012 #210
You have to do what you have to do. HuckleB Jul 2012 #212
Buy AMERICAN!!! B Calm Jul 2012 #215
Get rid of your computer. baldguy Jul 2012 #223
Gee, thanks for making my point! B Calm Jul 2012 #230
This is perhaps the worst argument I've ever heard. Romulox Jul 2012 #237
Here's a MUCH more entertaining version of this same argument (Nelson Muntz content!) Romulox Jul 2012 #238
How long before *THIS* OP is deleted, I wonder? It will look nice next to MM's other "explanation" Romulox Jul 2012 #240
Since you asked again, the answer is the same. Never. MineralMan Jul 2012 #242
You said in that SAME post: "I won't continue the back and forth with you any further." Romulox Jul 2012 #244
he's got a crush on you... dionysus Jul 2012 #245
I'm happily married. MineralMan Jul 2012 #246
How, how, HOW do you get all this scrutiny of your personal life??? Oh, I know. You post it. ALL Romulox Jul 2012 #248
Not really. I post personal anecdotes sometimes, though, MineralMan Jul 2012 #253
This is a *political* message board, so you must believe your personal life has political import. Romulox Jul 2012 #254
Just to be clear: you will NEVER be free from criticism here on DU. You don't have that right. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #256
Each one of those posts from me has a response--from YOU. So who's smitten here???? Romulox Jul 2012 #247
aw, thanks. i do hope you guys smooth things out. dionysus Jul 2012 #249
Mineral Man *started* this thread. About *himself*. That's why he's being discussed here. Romulox Jul 2012 #251
And that's still a pretty weak answer for your stalking. YOU are stalking ME to protect MineralMan? Romulox Jul 2012 #252
project much? you're the one talking shit about people beind their backs in multiple threads. dionysus Jul 2012 #255
Right. You just *happen* to post a response to me in each thread, then compile a list of my posts. Romulox Jul 2012 #257
I recently bought a Kia Optima Drale Jul 2012 #258
thanks for the report. i'm in the market myself and have been considering the soul. ellenfl Jul 2012 #259
ONLY American Made iron for us. bvar22 Jul 2012 #260
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