General Discussion

karynnj

(61,031 posts)

61. Some wounds were self inflicted

Wed Oct 11, 2017, 06:56 AM

Oct 2017

Her numbers worsened with her book tour where even supporters called her "rusty". Then she poorly handled the email mess that should never have happened. Also, she argued on that tour and in her book that Obama should have been more aggressive in Syria. It was reasonable to differ with Obama, but that is not the direction the country was wanting. I assume those two hits, not a very unsurprising announcement of an exploratory committee brought down her numbers.

I agree with the OP though and it deserves real consideration. Any Republican would have used these real negatives against HRC and as we saw they made stuff up as well. Back in 2005/2006, one strong argument for HRC was she was too well defined and vetted for the Republicans to swiftboat. The OP actually explains why that was not true for her or probably anyone else.

Yet even if her numbers were bad, Trump's numbers were worse. This tribal explanation explain why that did not matter. I am more optimistic than the OP for the future. Bush's disaster of a second term shifted the playing field from 2004. Obama was an incredible candidate, but by 2008, any Democrat nominated would have won. Trump is far worse. I think ANY reasonable nominee in 2020 will beat him.

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Highlight:

Maybe Clinton Wasn't to Blame for Trump's Victory [View all] DonViejo Oct 2017 OP

Totally agree with this article. LenaBaby61 Oct 2017 #1

It's akin to the Christian Bible story where the people ask to save the life of Barabas. coolsandy Oct 2017 #3

Not true ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #18

Seems like Russia had something to do with the election PJMcK Oct 2017 #27

Not sure if you are agreeing ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #38

Your suggestion concerning Secretary Clinton's loss PJMcK Oct 2017 #41

Keep on dreaming. dhol82 Oct 2017 #36

No he wouldn't. Biden would have lost also...I have no doubt that this election was stolen. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #64

drumpf, his campaign and his supporters rigged the 2016 election. democratisphere Oct 2017 #50

Interesting to see... Mike Nelson Oct 2017 #2

...and... Mike Nelson Oct 2017 #5

Kornacki was one who delighted in radical noodle Oct 2017 #78

Exactly why I say the only person who can beat the FMOTUS is... (drum roll, please) Hugin Oct 2017 #4

Its almost as if the Dem party needed to run someone who wasn't a Democrat...but who? aikoaiko Oct 2017 #6

That's why the GOP exists BainsBane Oct 2017 #7

That's not the only option. aikoaiko Oct 2017 #8

Yes, well we still have a democracy BainsBane Oct 2017 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Oct 2017 #15

Without superdelegates Clinton still wins JI7 Oct 2017 #16

Based on how the US elects its presidents ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #25

The electorate should represent the will of the population Orrex Oct 2017 #62

They do , within their own state nm MichMan Oct 2017 #65

Not good enough. Orrex Oct 2017 #66

How did the presidential election get gerrymandered? MichMan Oct 2017 #82

Well, perhaps gerrymandered is the wrong term, but maybe not Orrex Oct 2017 #83

There were dangers both ways radical noodle Oct 2017 #79

Stop refighting the primaries. yardwork Oct 2017 #17

Oh, okay. aikoaiko Oct 2017 #20

Nope. ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #10

NO leftofcool Oct 2017 #29

Are you saying that Russia wouldn't have meddled to install Trump? pnwmom Oct 2017 #32

If we would have run Bernie Sanders, we would have lost bigger than we did jmowreader Oct 2017 #40

How the hell could the party run a non-Democrat? Blue_Tires Oct 2017 #43

Ridiculous GaryCnf Oct 2017 #9

Clinton's unfavorable ratings were off the charts ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #19

Her popularity was higher than most politicians before she announced. Caliman73 Oct 2017 #21

Doesn't matter what if she was more popular than other politicians in April 2015 when she announced ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #22

You are putting the cart before the horse. Caliman73 Oct 2017 #23

So "lies and cheating" ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #24

you're simply ignoring all the information we currently have about propaganda efforts to target her: JHan Oct 2017 #26

So are you arguing that Hillary wasn't the least popular Democrat ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #31

The email server story was blown out of proportion or are you going to argue otherwise? JHan Oct 2017 #37

I'm not arguing anything ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #42

Yes, politicians sometimes inflict wounds on themselves. JHan Oct 2017 #48

Where ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #57

'Kay, I don't mind revisiting this.... JHan Oct 2017 #58

The Obama administration did not find evidence of collusion karynnj Oct 2017 #63

yes the article is interesting... JHan Oct 2017 #68

I disagree that the NYT "bungled" the email story -- karynnj Oct 2017 #72

Yes, they bungled it , their first reporting on it shaped the way the story was covered JHan Oct 2017 #73

Most of those links do not speak of the NYT "bungling" the story karynnj Oct 2017 #74

The first link is not just polemic, JHan Oct 2017 #75

What does polling on DU in the summer of 2016 have to do with anything at all? ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #69

Are you saying Hillary lies and cheats? radical noodle Oct 2017 #80

Some wounds were self inflicted karynnj Oct 2017 #61

Your umpopularity argument is baseless as the even more unpopular candidate was elected. LonePirate Oct 2017 #35

Baseless? ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #44

The second least popular candidate won the popular vote. That undercuts your whole argument. stevenleser Oct 2017 #49

There were 2 candidates! ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #53

Yes, and? stevenleser Oct 2017 #55

The fact that Hillary Clinton won the ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #56

After months of attacks by the Russia/Trump internet propaganda campaign? pnwmom Oct 2017 #39

I realize it's counterintuitive GaryCnf Oct 2017 #52

The OP doesn't say she was a weak candidate. Read past the first paragraph. pnwmom Oct 2017 #30

Uniquely vulnerable is not the same as weak loyalsister Oct 2017 #76

I happen to live in Wisconsin jodymarie aimee Oct 2017 #11

this. nt TheFrenchRazor Oct 2017 #51

How did Republicans cheat ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #54

Here's how they cheat Zambero Oct 2017 #59

Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #70

K&R Gothmog Oct 2017 #13

There's some truth to this. People support him because he's an a-hole. The positions are irrelevant. LonePirate Oct 2017 #14

Derrrrrr. We knew this in 2004 with Swift Boating of John Kerry. sharedvalues Oct 2017 #28

It was Obama's fault because he was the one who appointed James Comey. StevieM Oct 2017 #33

Or maybe it was vote flipping joeybee12 Oct 2017 #34

I've been voting straight Dem ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #47

I think you're wrong joeybee12 Oct 2017 #67

Trump was probably a better candidate than people thought. Willie Pep Oct 2017 #45

Or perhaps a worse electorate than we thought? Zambero Oct 2017 #71

The nuclear option should of course be to Blue_Tires Oct 2017 #46

That article concludes by arguing that its thesis may mean Ken Burch Oct 2017 #60

We don't have a secure voting system and it was hacked. She is not to blame. nt Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #77

....and Facebook thebluedems Oct 2017 #81