General Discussion

delisen

(7,414 posts)

74. Wrong analysis.

Sun Oct 15, 2017, 01:03 PM

Oct 2017

Might help if you defined your terms.

The terms leftist and liberal are used generically and people with a wide variety of political views and beliefs lay claim to these labels; sometimes they are used interchangeably.

There is the same problem with the term progressive.

Many people claim to be leftist and anti-capitalist who are in actuality willing beneficiaries of capitalism and others who are decidedly retro and playing out an intellectual end game of Marxist philosophy of previous centuries-they are not going to disrupt their lives or sacrifice their leisure time to bring about systemic change.

In fact I find they usually can't describe how their own lives will be different if there is systemic change

Racism, xenophobia, economic bubble classes (and I would add inequality for women) are also features of other social and economic systems.

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The difference between a leftist and a liberal view of Trump....... [View all] socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 OP

somehow made me think of this Randy Newman song... handmade34 Oct 2017 #1

Just struck me as a typical dishonest, gratuitous insult. Hortensis Oct 2017 #108

Thank you for posting that article. betsuni Oct 2017 #118

Great article nini Oct 2017 #121

You don't have to be a "leftist" to believe the problem goes beyond 45 himself nini Oct 2017 #2

Yup joeybee12 Oct 2017 #13

Seriously, this is getting so old nini Oct 2017 #72

You call it the "Purity card"......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #16

Well, you don't understand then nini Oct 2017 #71

I don't believe there is a fundamental difference. So to me your thread sets up a false division emulatorloo Oct 2017 #77

I'm a liberal and can see that removing 45 will not solve the problem. Merlot Oct 2017 #28

Yep. More purity bullshit leftofcool Oct 2017 #102

I agree with you. But sweetroxie Oct 2017 #3

Yes it does.......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #14

Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #4

The OP doesn't mention Sanders or Clinton n/t leftstreet Oct 2017 #6

Far left vs. liberals ? We Hillary folks might not be smart be we can still connect the dots....LOL Trust Buster Oct 2017 #8

I never said that liberals weren't smart........... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #12

Who is they? mcar Oct 2017 #20

I find your comment to be ignorant and arrogant at best. First, I consider myself a progressive Trust Buster Oct 2017 #21

Your post went live a minute after mine but we both used the same word. stevenleser Oct 2017 #25

Awesome. tymorial Oct 2017 #81

Which is exactly why we will not take House or Senate in 2018 leftofcool Oct 2017 #103

Good Democrats? mountain grammy Oct 2017 #120

Thank you. I didn't mention Sanders or Clinton........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #11

It didn't have to. kcr Oct 2017 #36

Oh Please. It didn't need to be stated. tymorial Oct 2017 #80

OP didnt mention either but the sentiment is the same stevenleser Oct 2017 #18

The far left and far right might have different ideologies but their emotional self absorption is Trust Buster Oct 2017 #24

That is exactly what this thread is, but I am a Hillary and DNC supporter so I cant Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #31

Provocation was the motive here. We centrist Democratic simpletons are just not equipped to think Trust Buster Oct 2017 #35

LOL what is so funny about that is not ONE of these folks are as liberal Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #41

So congrats! Do you believe that remedies can be found within ........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #60

So because I've studied these subjects and have formed an opinion on them....... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #44

I did not promote your thoughts anywhere in my post to the level of elitist. Trust Buster Oct 2017 #62

Well "arrogant" and "smarter" certainly implies elitism.......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #64

You deflect by arguing what the meaning of the word is is. You made a broad observation that Trust Buster Oct 2017 #66

Not playing the victim at all........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #70

There's arrogance all over your op. JHan Oct 2017 #100

No. The elitism come when one thinks no one else has studied these subjects Squinch Oct 2017 #94

My personal politics have evolved over the last couple of years... JHan Oct 2017 #78

And so it continues. Trust Buster Oct 2017 #87

Well stated. leftofcool Oct 2017 #104

this was framed in terms of ideas not personalities. If "centrist" Dems want to stay in driver's... yurbud Oct 2017 #98

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #124

So is that why leftists don't vote or vote third party? LuvLoogie Oct 2017 #5

Pretty much........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #9

So you openly promote not voting for the D party? Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #42

Vote for whoever the fuck you want to............ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #46

Strawmen arguments about false divisivions are never "good topics" emulatorloo Oct 2017 #79

It illustrated something that some random guy made up in his head and you agreed with. Nothing more. Squinch Oct 2017 #95

Then why would they lower themselves BainsBane Oct 2017 #84

I can only speak for me, but in the US......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #91

Great. Another artificial division imposed on Democrats. I wish people would stop this shit. Squinch Oct 2017 #7

Not really "artificial" at all......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #10

No, it isn't. It's something that someone who identifies as "leftist," and who thinks he or she Squinch Oct 2017 #15

I never thought that I was smarter than anyone....... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #23

You may not be aware of it but you clearly think so. Its in your writing stevenleser Oct 2017 #27

You're not alone in that observation. I see it as well. It's... NurseJackie Oct 2017 #37

So it's "arrogant" for me to hold a viewpoint?......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #38

Right because no one else on DU has a viewpoint stevenleser Oct 2017 #43

I never said you did. I said the person who wrote the original piece did. But Squinch Oct 2017 #90

As I said elsewhere, just because the phrase ........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #92

Now tell me again about how you aren't calling your allies stupid. Squinch Oct 2017 #93

Weren't you the one telling me that I didn't understand............ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #109

It must be lonely to be you in such an intellectually lazy world. Squinch Oct 2017 #110

No its not joeybee12 Oct 2017 #17

Why in the world are so many people mischaracterizing this........ socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #30

Maybe "so many people" are not wrong, and you are the one who has the blind spot. Squinch Oct 2017 #96

What if "so many people" are wrong? This argument predates my lifetime. Zen Democrat Oct 2017 #106

The event you describe is not the reason that we became a country dominated by the MIC. Squinch Oct 2017 #107

I disagree completely mcar Oct 2017 #19

Nancy Pelosi said the the Democrats......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #26

You are speaking of economic systems ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #29

The economic system influences the social aspects ......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #33

Im saying you are underestimating social influences ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #50

Proto-fascist and even right wing authoritarian movements............. socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #63

And, as I am constantly telling Republicans, there are many shades of Capitalism stevenleser Oct 2017 #32

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who said...... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #34

And to you that means embracing Reaganism. See thats the problem stevenleser Oct 2017 #40

Now you know why i don't post often. Scruffy1 Oct 2017 #48

There is another example that doesn't directly relate to US politics......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #52

Nuance is lost in these arguments. JHan Oct 2017 #114

You didn't answer my question mcar Oct 2017 #49

As to whether they've used those exact words or not........... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #58

You're like Eastwood arguing with an empty chair, a strawman evil liberal you've created emulatorloo Oct 2017 #82

Ah, but if they use the names of actual liberals they'll get locked sweetloukillbot Oct 2017 #117

His thread wouldn't get locked. He just is unable to name a real liberal politician or pundit emulatorloo Oct 2017 #139

"an entire political class of Democratic politicians who supported the Reagan view of capitalism" BzaDem Oct 2017 #112

Unless your post was ghost written by someone from the far left that is.......LOL Trust Buster Oct 2017 #39

Trump is a republican creation ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #22

McCarthyism was powerful in the fifties. Blue_true Oct 2017 #45

LOL JI7 Oct 2017 #47

Completely wrong. DanTex Oct 2017 #51

word. KG Oct 2017 #53

Trump is merely a reflection of the sickness in the US and the world. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #54

That depends on whether you think that.......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #56

Systems merely reflect human nature, the individuals. There is a dark side to human nature Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #61

Probably leftist, but only you can really decide that........... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #65

I don't think anything is left off the hook. Humans make the systems. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #69

Not a new conversation, G_j Oct 2017 #55

This song was in the back of my mind....... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #68

that explains a lot about yr thread emulatorloo Oct 2017 #86

I have long felt that Michael Parenti's Democracy for the Few malaise Oct 2017 #57

Kickin' Faux pas Oct 2017 #59

I consider myself a liberal, and I've always seen Trump as a symptom of deeper systemic problems Crunchy Frog Oct 2017 #67

Well, that's a thoughtful reply. I don't agree.......... socialist_n_TN Oct 2017 #73

Wrong analysis. delisen Oct 2017 #74

Unfortunately, responses here are hung up on your choice of words Jim Lane Oct 2017 #75

Liberal here: GOP is the problem sharedvalues Oct 2017 #76

There are conservatives who agree with that assessment BainsBane Oct 2017 #83

The issue is the toxic moral cancer of the GOP, not how #45 is perceived. VOX Oct 2017 #85

I have always viewed the term leftist (as well as progressive) as referring to economics only... LostOne4Ever Oct 2017 #88

I'm just glad our Democratic Party is a big tent. KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #89

I'm a liberal and that op reads like something from Russia. Something to cause distraction rockfordfile Oct 2017 #97

No. Nonhlanhla Oct 2017 #99

If one sees capitalism as the root of the problem, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #101

"I have never seen..." Have you seen any form of capitalism practiced throughout Europe? BzaDem Oct 2017 #113

Capitalism is a business philosophy. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #115

What about an answer to my question? :) BzaDem Oct 2017 #116

yep. JHan Oct 2017 #128

Deploying Democratic division as distraction from recent, real Republican revolt. FreepFryer Oct 2017 #105

Fabulous post! Squinch Oct 2017 #111

Thanks for making it easy for me GulfCoast66 Oct 2017 #119

Unregulated capitalism is a Republican idea and no one on the left thinks it's a good one. betsuni Oct 2017 #122

I don't agree with the liberal/leftist division, but I agree that Trump is a symptom... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2017 #123

Na'. Liberals viewed Trump as a monster threat to everything they ideologically stood for... Drunken Irishman Oct 2017 #125

You nailed it. grossproffit Oct 2017 #132

+1 betsuni Oct 2017 #135

That entirely ignores whether or not Trump is singular. He is probably not even singularly stupid JCanete Oct 2017 #140

We all knew what we were going to get with Trump We got it. Drunken Irishman Oct 2017 #141

In hindsight Trump's rise is not surprising. Willie Pep Oct 2017 #126

How about, just a plain 'ol democrat? demosincebirth Oct 2017 #127

which ones wear the Che Shirts ? JI7 Oct 2017 #129

Not liberals. grossproffit Oct 2017 #131

Trump is not the problem Trumpocalypse Oct 2017 #130

Thinking capitalism is the problem will get us nothing. Total Socialism ruins everything equally 7962 Oct 2017 #133

There is no clear-cut, objective, generally accepted difference between a "leftist" and a "liberal." pnwmom Oct 2017 #134

Capitalism... CanSocDem Oct 2017 #136

I thought you were a Socialist? snooper2 Oct 2017 #137

So we're in agreement... The first step is removing him from office Blue_Tires Oct 2017 #138