Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: President Obama's Disingenuous Attack on Outsourcing [View all]AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)174. You are mistaken. Obama did not appoint either Scalia or Thomas.
He did, however, appoint Elena Kagan.
With respect to criminal cases, do you believe that she is a liberal or a progessive?
Strangely enough, some well respected attorneys and legal scholars do not. Please see, for example, Charles Weisselberg's analysis entitled Elena Kagan and the Death of Miranda.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-weisselberg/elena-kagan-and-the-death_b_596447.html
As early as 2010, he wrote:
On June 1, the U.S. Supreme Court finally dealt Miranda a death blow. Elena Kagan, Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court, was complicit in Miranda's demise. Her participation may give some insight into her views on the rights of criminal defendants, and her understanding of how the law affects ordinary people.
In Berghuis v. Thompkins, the decision announced today, the Court ruled 5-4 that a suspect has to speak in order to assert the right to remain silent. Van Chester Thompkins was given his Miranda warnings and remained quiet for almost 3 hours. During that time, officers continued the interrogation and Thompkins eventually made an admission. A federal court found that he had asserted his right to remain silent by actually remaining silent, and that officers should have ended the questioning. The Supreme Court reversed.
The majority said that if officers give Miranda warnings to a suspect, they may begin questioning and continue to question unless the person clearly and unambiguously says he wants to remain silent or wants a lawyer. Police do not have to expressly ask a suspect to waive their rights. If the person shows incredible stamina -- like Thompkins -- and manages to remain silent through hours of intense interrogation, he will have "waived" his rights if he eventually caves in to pressure.
And the Court has placed a substantial burden on suspects to invoke their rights with great precision. A number of lower courts applying the clear and unambiguous standard have been quite demanding, finding that statements such as "I think it's about time for me to stop talking" and "I think I would like to talk to a lawyer" are not clear invocations of the right to remain silent or the right to counsel.
In Berghuis v. Thompkins, the decision announced today, the Court ruled 5-4 that a suspect has to speak in order to assert the right to remain silent. Van Chester Thompkins was given his Miranda warnings and remained quiet for almost 3 hours. During that time, officers continued the interrogation and Thompkins eventually made an admission. A federal court found that he had asserted his right to remain silent by actually remaining silent, and that officers should have ended the questioning. The Supreme Court reversed.
The majority said that if officers give Miranda warnings to a suspect, they may begin questioning and continue to question unless the person clearly and unambiguously says he wants to remain silent or wants a lawyer. Police do not have to expressly ask a suspect to waive their rights. If the person shows incredible stamina -- like Thompkins -- and manages to remain silent through hours of intense interrogation, he will have "waived" his rights if he eventually caves in to pressure.
And the Court has placed a substantial burden on suspects to invoke their rights with great precision. A number of lower courts applying the clear and unambiguous standard have been quite demanding, finding that statements such as "I think it's about time for me to stop talking" and "I think I would like to talk to a lawyer" are not clear invocations of the right to remain silent or the right to counsel.
In contrast to the majority that formally transformed Miranda into a rule protecting the police instead of protecting the accused, Justice Sotomayor (joined by retiring Justice John Paul Stevens and Justices Breyer and Ginsburg) wrote a dissent which explains how the majority opinion rewrote Miranda. It's worth reading.
As also noted by Charles Weisselberg, Miranda's safeguards for suspects are now mostly symbolic and rendered meaningless. "So long as officers give warnings, their interrogation practices will be largely immune from any legal challenge. As the justices have noted in other cases, if warnings are given and a statement is obtained, it is very difficult for a defendant to contend that his admissions were coerced."
You think that Justice Kagan is a liberal or progressive with respect to criminal issues?
Also as noted in Harvard Law & Policy Review, Death by a Thousand Cuts
http://hlpronline.com/2010/09/death-by-a-thousand-cuts-miranda-and-the-supreme-court%E2%80%99s-2009-10-term/
In a trilogy of decisions from that term, (2) the Court eviscerated Miranda safeguards, reversed state and federal decisions finding violations of Miranda, and, in the view of dissenting justices, turn(ed) Miranda upside down.(3) As an attorney for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers lamented, (a)t this rate, whats left of Miranda will be only what we see on TV.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
231 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Brilliant duck, even for you, Sid. I guess you can't defend Mr. Immelt. I wouldn't try, either. nt
Romulox
Jul 2012
#14
Why did this administration appoint Republicans to the President's cabinet? Are you saying
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#131
Letting Global Oil Cartels have more access to our resources is not 'outsourcing'?
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#229
And the question then becomes when will "enough be enough"? Short, sweet, and to the point.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#46
So.. you're not against RW policy from 'dems', just offended that someone you consider RW
Edweird
Jul 2012
#34
FUDrs work thsi board HARD! Thx for your insght, I don't think I can believe them at all...
uponit7771
Jul 2012
#61
I am stating clearly (no need to imply) that I am against RW policy without regard to the source.
Edweird
Jul 2012
#64
Sometimes the truth is very painful and there are many here that are very disappointed
Bandit
Jul 2012
#3
This sounds FUDr-ish, at the least assume Obama is a dictator and congress is something he can
uponit7771
Jul 2012
#4
Well, I don't have any way to refute this. Is it ok to cast aspersions against the OP, instead?
Romulox
Jul 2012
#8
Surely people are not gullible enough to fall for this obvious a ruse?
Egalitarian Thug
Jul 2012
#101
Absolutely not. Election year is the MOST important time to speak up.
woo me with science
Jul 2012
#16
You are full of shit if you think it is "OK" to cozy up to a right wing shill
emulatorloo
Jul 2012
#142
You asked, "Do you want repug Romney appointing their replacements with more right wingers like
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#86
"I'ld rather that Obama would do that." Which is bullshit speculation that
emulatorloo
Jul 2012
#176
No matter how many times you use the word "bullshit," Kagan's positions on criminal cases is coming
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#188
Kagan was your attempt to change the subject from me calling you on your speculative bullshit.
emulatorloo
Jul 2012
#192
But for how much longer? This is against Skinner's own mission statement. How much longer?
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#49
But with or without the use of rightwing sources, Skinner has to have recognized the pattern.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#77
"The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part..."
Romulox
Jul 2012
#82
I don't think it's disingenuous if he's trying to do something about the problem.
RedStateLiberal
Jul 2012
#22
Then going back to your origional statement in which you said that you don't think it's disingenuous
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#98
3rd way/new 'dem' garbage is about RW policy. This and the individual mandate are prime examples.
Edweird
Jul 2012
#32
Post right wing sources to attack President Obama and this is what I see/hear
stevenleser
Jul 2012
#38
Unless Kucinich or Nader is running... am I to assume the purists are voting for Romney???
progressivebydesign
Jul 2012
#58
Why are you attacking THE Democratic candidate during a presidential campaign??
kestrel91316
Jul 2012
#63
K n R. Apparently our side is as susceptible to candidates' pandering as theirs.
Lionessa
Jul 2012
#76
For some, as you can readily see, speaking the truth is overrated. But I thank you.
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#94
If there is to be a choice between the truth and disingenuous ad hominem attacks on truth tellers,
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#99
Um, no. I like the 'blue links'. So I'll ask again, why did this administration appoint Republicans
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#134
Yes, facts do come in handy especially when there are those who try to deflect from
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#136
My question was 'why did this administration appoint Republicans to his cabinet'
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#138
True, but I am astounded by what has been revealed in this thread. From the same people
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#228
Wow, that's a remarkably unwarranted celebration you are having there with your friends.
woo me with science
Jul 2012
#133
Prosense, didn't you know that squatting in parks and disavowing politics is the wave of the future?
dionysus
Jul 2012
#144
You said that, not I. I am a Democrat because I despise Republicans and do not want them in
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#199
I, as a Democrat, more than 'tend to leave Republicans out and to exclude them as they do to us'.
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#202
So you too agree with Dems appointing Republicans to positions of power after we throw them out?
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#162
Sabrina - lets have a nice discussion without "litmus tests" as to who is a "better" Democrat.
emulatorloo
Jul 2012
#166
We disagree. Gates is a war monger and a liar. No Democrat should appoint someone
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#179
It is ok to disagree. As to your original question, long tradition of appointees from another party
emulatorloo
Jul 2012
#189
Yes, I am aware, and even support, cooperation between the two parties. But we are talking about
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#204
what's "desperate" is, the "dems" who are so upset that obama's going to have another 4 years, they
dionysus
Jul 2012
#148
he does have a point. Democrats have supported outsourcing and predatory capitalism. However, if I
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2012
#161
It's outright attempts at suppression, and against the TOS. I don't get it.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#177
You were doing okay up to your last paragraph, which is something you apparently made up
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#225
So again, you have not explained this. Why do you support putting Republicans in
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#207
Hey Sid, why won't answer the question? Do you support Republicans being given
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#212
"Or are you disputing the fact that Immelt was appointed to this president's cabinet? "..
SidDithers
Jul 2012
#213