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JCanete

(5,272 posts)
55. I think in the spirit of unity, the thing we might strive for, is not to avoid airing our grievances
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 04:54 PM
Oct 2017


It is totally fair to try to make a case that the leftwing holdouts cost us this election, or that their strategy is a mistake, or that they entirely misinterpret the problem. It is also totally okay to make the case that the democratic party and its leaders have made huge missteps, and have adopted a strategy for decades now that has resulted in us losing 1000 seats over that time. Its okay to criticize policies of Sanders and policies of Clinton, and to challenge their rhetoric and speculate on its effects.

As silly as I think the argument is, it is okay to say Sanders is trying to offer ponies or unicorns, and is letting perfect be the enemy of the good.

As silly as other people think it is, its okay to point out how loud money speaks, no matter what party it is buying a mouthpiece from, so long as that allegation is not in the spirit of actually going the extra mile and assuming the worst of the figures who happen to benefit from that kind of funding. After all, there are strategic aspects that they have no choice but to consider, and they are working within their sense of that framework. Also, there's the fact that some simply benefit from having an ideology that is more appreciated by industries than other ideologies. They aren't shills. They just benefit disproportionally by their less threatening(to said industries) convictions.

This is all in the realm of hashing out philosophical and strategic disagreements. None of it is in the realm of ascribing motivations. None of that is taking the liberty of assuming that our would-be allies are bought and paid for, or conversely, that they are selfish evildoers who either advocated abstaining or voting third party for no reason except that they are petty people who don't give a shit about the suffering of others.

None of that is getting up in arms when somebody remains in the political sphere because that person is still a hero to people, or is still a voice that represents many of us on the left, whether that be Clinton and the ridiculous calls for her to go the fuck away, or Sanders and the equally absurd flip-outs over him being invited on the unity tour, or being tapped to defend the ACA in a debate, or to speak at a women's conference.

All of that is in the service of disunity. That's what we should be striving to avoid on both sides of this SAME SIDE. Granted, there are actually philosophical areas where we part company. So of course we are going to have strong disagreements and there will be a struggle for the heart of the democratic party over core ideals. That's how a party evolves over time. It's inevitable and not a bad thing, so long as it isn't hateful and doesn't devolve into character assassination. I know sometimes that's a blurry line, but I think that we should be striving individually to avoid stepping into that fuzzy area.

As to not casting aspersions about Trump voters, that's important because first, demonizing anybody gets in the way of actually getting into their heads and understanding what is motivating their decisions, which is a tactically unsound thing to do, and we can expect to prescribe the wrong medicine to that condition as a result. Second, you aren't going to be able to penetrate their bubbles if you make sure they know that life outside of them is toxic for them. And their bubbles are huge. This isn't a bullyable minority. These are bubbles generated en-masse by our media and the money behind it, because these dis-informed people are useful. They don't need to change to get acceptance. They have plenty of it in their bubbles. What they need is to be confronted over and over with cognitive dissonance. Calling them deplorables doesn't generate that...it only reinforces their world-view about us.

There's no question, these voters are a problem. But anybody trying to defend the current world-view of Trump voters is probably not coming from the left. Trying to understand why they see the world they see, and the underlying misconceptions that feed their fears and hatred is not agreeing that the reality they see is accurate. It's just accepting that they are trying to be good people in their own heads, based on that skewed reality. If that's the challenge...to change that skewed reality...then we should be using the right tools.

Please try not to confuse the media's bungling(and there is no mainstream personality in the news who is among the far left, you know this) with people on the left when it comes to the message of what we should learn from Trump voters. Their own gleeful mischaracterization of the point...that we ignored the world-view(rather than the struggles) of white rural voters, is a convenient lie(although I suspect its as likely that this is often just a lazy misunderstanding by media personalities who just aren't that deep) that feeds into all of the things that divide us in the bottom 99%. That sewing of division, is of course good for ratings, and keeps the heat off the people who the heat is never allowed to singe.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Awesome....and so true. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #1
Some want to unify over their hatred for Pres. Obama and Democrats while enjoying warm fuzzies for Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #2
It says a lot BainsBane Oct 2017 #3
Yes it does...and I have less and less patience with this bullshit. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #42
K&R stonecutter357 Oct 2017 #4
Yup. Control-Z Oct 2017 #5
I lack your restraint. BainsBane Oct 2017 #7
Nah. I'm just a coward. Control-Z Oct 2017 #26
K&R Gothmog Oct 2017 #6
Appareently Their Description Of Unity Me. Oct 2017 #8
Well said. BainsBane Oct 2017 #10
& it became truly important ONLY the day after election & not a minute sooner. Madam45for2923 Oct 2017 #19
Is anybody on this board, on DU, actually defending Nader and Stein? Or Sarandon? Ken Burch Oct 2017 #70
I just saw one defending Sarandon. betsuni Oct 2017 #74
They're here on DU, just usually more circumspect than not. Then they burst forth with ... Hekate Oct 2017 #80
Uh no, I don't know that. I'm not a defender of Stein or of Sarandon. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #84
K&R sheshe2 Oct 2017 #9
Fuck Stein and Sarandon. Also fuck Fox News No-Me-KEY Konst and her red rose ratf*cking brigade. Maven Oct 2017 #11
Definitely the right thread BainsBane Oct 2017 #13
Oh yeah, how could I forget? Sarandon's main man from 2000 Maven Oct 2017 #15
Nader was key in giving Bush the 2000 victory Gothmog Oct 2017 #29
Right some revolutionary she is...17 years after Gore and where is this progressive Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #43
K&R betsuni Oct 2017 #12
K&R&SMH&GOT(D)V (n/t) FreepFryer Oct 2017 #14
Post removed Post removed Oct 2017 #16
so there are no progressive democrats among the "bains"? JHan Oct 2017 #18
Oh, what did I miss? BainsBane Oct 2017 #40
Apparently the bains faction only criticizes progressive democrats... JHan Oct 2017 #58
What progressive Democrat have I criticized? BainsBane Oct 2017 #62
clearly it ain't good enough.. JHan Oct 2017 #64
Saradon is not progressive. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #44
Glad you are so sincerely interested in UNITY! Madam45for2923 Oct 2017 #20
I'm glad that doesn't happen at DU. Where are you going where you see this? aikoaiko Oct 2017 #17
This is your favorite game BainsBane Oct 2017 #28
It really doesn't happen very much, BainsBane. aikoaiko Oct 2017 #37
It happens all he time...a thread about Obama and Clinton not calling out Weinstein Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #45
Me, aikoaiko, had an affect on this election? Wow, I'm right up there with the Russians and... aikoaiko Oct 2017 #50
Yeah there was an effect on 2016 close election by those ...but I didn't mean you...who didn't vote Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #51
Oh really ??first post I opened earlier today was this crap lunasun Oct 2017 #52
Ouch! You typed "Weinstein" instead of "Feinstein"! WinkyDink Oct 2017 #73
What you said, BB Hekate Oct 2017 #81
I'm glad you allege it doesn't happen. LanternWaste Oct 2017 #34
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN "WE' NEEDED YOU? Podkayne K Oct 2017 #21
I was doing voter turnout BainsBane Oct 2017 #30
I was doing the same Podkayne K Oct 2017 #32
Not at all BainsBane Oct 2017 #38
Once More... Podkayne K Oct 2017 #56
I was phone banking and knocking on doors...not writing endless posts about how Hillary Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #46
I guess this is my fault... Podkayne K Oct 2017 #89
Not your fault...didn't mean it that way. I was merely pointing out that I worked tirelessly for Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #94
VIVA LA VIDA UNITED! Very Purely, Heartfelt-y, Sincerely & Well-Meaning-ly! Madam45for2923 Oct 2017 #22
Lol ananda Oct 2017 #23
Sad but true! brer cat Oct 2017 #24
k and r niyad Oct 2017 #25
More stirring of the pot left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #27
Sigh BainsBane Oct 2017 #31
Oh looky ! An ignore button. left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #33
Yup! Ignore is your friend. woodsprite Oct 2017 #41
Yeah, or posting articles by Nader mcar Oct 2017 #66
I too pretend that self-examination, self-criticism and self-analysis is merely stirring a pot. LanternWaste Oct 2017 #35
so happy for you left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #36
Self-examination? BainsBane Oct 2017 #39
They talk about Democrats like the 'other' so I would not call it self-examination. Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #48
Exactly BainsBane Oct 2017 #53
Millennials are being lead to the GOP slaughter by those who should know better...electing the GOP Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #49
So why keep doing it with threads attacking prominent Democrats like Feinstein, Harris and Pelosi... Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #47
Quiet? blaming Obama for a Trump presidency sucks and didn't belong on DU today lunasun Oct 2017 #54
I think in the spirit of unity, the thing we might strive for, is not to avoid airing our grievances JCanete Oct 2017 #55
Defending multimillionaire donors BainsBane Oct 2017 #60
Why not focus on coming together to win in the future? Ken Burch Oct 2017 #68
I have done it, and I've also voted to have posts removed that bashed Corey Booker in ways that went JCanete Oct 2017 #71
It can also be taken out of the question of specific personalities, which is what I've tried to do. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #75
A vote for Jill Stein was a vote for trump Gothmog Oct 2017 #77
If the point was not to elect Trump in the casting of that vote, then it wasn't on principle, JCanete Oct 2017 #78
You are wrong yet again Gothmog Oct 2017 #79
Not even technically, since a vote for trump would be 1 Trump, 0 Clinton, 0 Stein. JCanete Oct 2017 #85
Idiots who voted for stein voted for Putin and Trump Gothmog Oct 2017 #87
"Without impugning the motives" -- Sorry, I'm done with that since 2000. I impugne the motives... Hekate Oct 2017 #82
and yet there are actually reasons to vote third party. They actually do have one JCanete Oct 2017 #86
Why did Putin and trolls push Stein? Gothmog Oct 2017 #88
for obvious reasons? Because for the most part the intention was to undermine Clinton's chances in JCanete Oct 2017 #90
Stein was a russian agent working to elect trump on behalf of Putin Gothmog Oct 2017 #92
Bookmarking. n/t rzemanfl Oct 2017 #57
Yes, and it will continue NastyRiffraff Oct 2017 #59
And I suspect the bots are far more active on Twitter BainsBane Oct 2017 #63
Nailed it! NurseJackie Oct 2017 #61
I dislike Stein as much as you do, and have no use for Sarandon. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #65
forget about Green Party voters, how do the relentless smears against Senator Sanders Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #67
Fair enough. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #69
THIS InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2017 #76
Stein gets 1% of the vote Bradical79 Oct 2017 #91
Ok...so those are voters who feel no party represents them. Ken Burch Oct 2017 #93
K&R. lunamagica Oct 2017 #72
KnR Hekate Oct 2017 #83
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