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Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)

88. You didn't even READ my post. Do not STUFF WORDS into my mouth. It is a DISGUSTING debating tactic.

Tue Oct 17, 2017, 07:54 AM

Oct 2017

If you had read my post you'd see that I said "messagING problem". I said nothing about the messenger(s). Any good messenger, of which the Democrats have many, could and did try to do that. Be it Hillary, Bernie, Franken, Harris, .... The headwinds are strong (horse-race obsessed media, foreign collusion, etc.) but it takes messaging to counteract them. The Democratic Party message itself is good.

If you had read my post you'd see that I acknowledged those "proven causes" by not disputing them.

The only fantasy is the one in your head as you respond to a fantasy post that you constructed instead of reading my post.

Then when you use underhanded debating tactics like you just did it shows you have nothing.

Read my post.

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The Democrats have a working class problem - and it's by no means confined to working class whites. [View all] YoungDemCA Oct 2017 OP

NOPE Iliyah Oct 2017 #1

? YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #2

What a useless post you have written. "NOPE"? Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2017 #47

you seem very concerned .. stonecutter357 Oct 2017 #134

I disagree BannonsLiver Oct 2017 #158

This is a huge right-wing, Republican Party, Russian, Koch alliance lie. Hortensis Oct 2017 #56

You're missing the point. Kentonio Oct 2017 #89

You are. Of course the giant Democrats are 'out of touch' smear is a lie. Hortensis Oct 2017 #92

Well perhaps you should make a little more effort to avoid being the latter. Kentonio Oct 2017 #94

Polls demonstrate success of the lie, not the truth. I'll ask YOU again: Are YOU out of touch Hortensis Oct 2017 #95

I already know our platform, thank you very much. Kentonio Oct 2017 #97

Where did you get your stat that 90% of American's don't care about politics? moda253 Oct 2017 #103

How about this information PJMcK Oct 2017 #142

NO!!! Negative propaganda is far more effective than "communicating a platform." Hortensis Oct 2017 #104

So when large numbers of people consistently poll that they don't feel we represent them any more Kentonio Oct 2017 #110

You imply the platform is as complicated as string theory. It's not... it's rather simple LanternWaste Oct 2017 #143

Do yourself a favor. Glamrock Oct 2017 #152

So simple, and yet we do such a horrible job of communicating it Kentonio Oct 2017 #154

Here we go again. The Platform ... KPN Oct 2017 #108

"blah, blah, blah" for our 50-PAGE platform of Democratic ideals and goals? Hortensis Oct 2017 #111

No ... blah, blah, blah about ... KPN Oct 2017 #115

All you see is 35 years of Democratic Party failure. Hortensis Oct 2017 #120

BS. "All I see" my ass! KPN Oct 2017 #123

I'm reading YOUR words and taking your message. And I don't like it at all. Hortensis Oct 2017 #126

And I obviously don't like your message ... KPN Oct 2017 #129

LOL ...I have tried that a couple times recently, no traction. Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #135

Not 'purity," just wired-in hostility looking for excuses. Hortensis Oct 2017 #137

Yeah, I guess. Not being able to discuss what happened, why it happened and how to Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #138

Effectively yes. Hortensis Oct 2017 #140

Yes, the purity deal is incorrect, I agree. Nothing pure about saying as long as I get Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #141

Yes! But of course, if Democrats had achieved single-payer, they'd be AGAINST that. Hortensis Oct 2017 #146

You are way wrong. This isn't about KPN Oct 2017 #161

35 years of failure? Remember, during almost half those years we had two successful Democratic... George II Oct 2017 #124

Yeah, failure as far as supporting the working class on KPN Oct 2017 #127

An unprecedented string of 70 months of job growth isn't helping/supporting the working class? George II Oct 2017 #147

Yes, some of us are very proud of these wonderful "failures." Hortensis Oct 2017 #130

Blah blah blah, dont you understand, you can list accomplishments all day long Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #136

You certainly make many unsupported allegations. LanternWaste Oct 2017 #144

Key words in your post were KPN Oct 2017 #105

Right-wing lies are about division and destruction. Hortensis Oct 2017 #107

I'm not. But way too many Democrats are in my view. KPN Oct 2017 #113

WTF? KPN Oct 2017 #102

Bernis Sanders focused on economic issues. Some say too much. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #3

They said the same thing about Clinton. YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #5

True, but some wish that his economic choices had been different. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #62

Perhaps we shouldn't blindly just compare eras... or years... JHan Oct 2017 #145

DURec leftstreet Oct 2017 #4

Thank you. (Nt) YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #6

apparently MFM008 Oct 2017 #7

So give them a simple, compelling reason to vote FOR Clinton (or anyone else - including Sanders) YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #9

Comey letter made a major difference for last-minute deciders. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #13

Your points are well taken. YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #14

Orange is the new king was on every program at 7 AM sharp 18 months before the goddamn election elehhhhna Oct 2017 #52

Yeah, so let's blame whoever hired Comey! vi5 Oct 2017 #36

I did not say anything remotely like that. emulatorloo Oct 2017 #139

I didn't say that you did.... vi5 Oct 2017 #156

Thanks for the clarification. A decent post from Sam Wang of Princeton Election Consortium emulatorloo Oct 2017 #162

I absolutely believe that Comey tipped this away from Hillary. vi5 Oct 2017 #163

I'd argue we didn't have a strong message on those things. Kentonio Oct 2017 #90

+ a brazillion! nt tblue37 Oct 2017 #106

Disagree. I don't think you are taking everything into account including ... KPN Oct 2017 #117

It's unfortunate that you blame Democrats for what Republicans have done emulatorloo Oct 2017 #150

Exactly. The "Liberal Media" - especially Cable News - spent little time discussing policies. JHan Oct 2017 #132

Please stop. Clinton actually won a "stolen" election with 3m more votes. brush Oct 2017 #19

I'd love it if my state - and other large blue states - decided the Presidential election. YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #21

Yes! peggysue2 Oct 2017 #49

Fear preaching?! Kentonio Oct 2017 #91

Yes, fear preaching or fud or whatever you want to call. We know there's a challenge ahead but the.. brush Oct 2017 #109

If that's the message you're taking away from the op, then you're not reading it right Kentonio Oct 2017 #112

Re-read my post. The OP should acknowledge our latest positive developments. It's not all FUD. brush Oct 2017 #114

"Throw up our hands and give up"? Where in the world KPN Oct 2017 #119

Re-read my post. The OP should acknowledge our latest positive developments. It's not all FUD. brush Oct 2017 #122

Okay, did that. KPN Oct 2017 #125

What about the positive developments? brush Oct 2017 #128

Positive developments as far as off year special election wins? KPN Oct 2017 #131

+1 progressoid Oct 2017 #23

People who need to be begged MFM008 Oct 2017 #86

Sounds like a good way to win elections - calling Americans stupid and lazy! (nt) YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #155

THIS ! KPN Oct 2017 #116

Black voter turnout in 2016 was similar to that of 2004. dawg Oct 2017 #8

At least some of this was due to murielm99 Oct 2017 #15

Yes, and considering ... dawg Oct 2017 #16

I went to our five county JFK Dinner murielm99 Oct 2017 #43

Black voters were very unlikely to turn out like they did in 2008 & 2012 MichMan Oct 2017 #65

You do understand Clinton won households making 50k and under right? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #10

I do, yes, but "economic anxiety" in the USA is by no means limited to the poor. YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #12

it doesn't necessarily negate your point. It informs it and is part of the bigger picture emulatorloo Oct 2017 #18

IIRC, the top issues for Trump voters in those Rust Belt states were economic too. HOWEVER... YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #20

Did Trump put forth a "economic agenda that honestly addresses the deep anxieties of working-class"? emulatorloo Oct 2017 #22

Wisconsin and Michigan turned red in 2010 delisen Oct 2017 #29

But "working class" people were more likely to vote for Hillary. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #41

When I see a sentence like this one ... LenaBaby61 Oct 2017 #11

I must say...this has been a more civil and respectful discussion thread than many others I've seen. YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #17

Another thread trashing Democrats...but wait didn't I hear that never happens? Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #25

Sounds like walking a chewing gum ... dems can do that uponit7771 Oct 2017 #24

Dams can do that.... vi5 Oct 2017 #37

Many people are alienated from politics. Willie Pep Oct 2017 #26

Please. I find falling for this crap depressing and disturbing. Jakes Progress Oct 2017 #27

I think you missed the point zipplewrath Oct 2017 #32

I didn't. But I think you did. She didn't lose. It was stolen. Jakes Progress Oct 2017 #84

Not sure I can agree with that zipplewrath Oct 2017 #100

Sure. Everyone else is wrong because you can't agree with them. Jakes Progress Oct 2017 #160

This does not surprise me. PETRUS Oct 2017 #28

I had the opposite experience. the Trump delisen Oct 2017 #33

Interesting. PETRUS Oct 2017 #38

No they were African-American. delisen Oct 2017 #39

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #73

The "argument" for voting for Democrats *should* be blatantly obvious for most people Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2017 #30

Seriously... Fuck that shit... Blue_Tires Oct 2017 #31

Because they are part of the "blue wall". zipplewrath Oct 2017 #34

Most people I know do not like being labeled as "working class." delisen Oct 2017 #35

Republicans never call people working class. delisen Oct 2017 #40

Sure, bro... Whatever you say Blue_Tires Oct 2017 #50

Thanks, you saved me some time. Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #51

Simply put...the Democratic Party is the party of government. Caliman73 Oct 2017 #61

One of the best posts in a long time Awsi Dooger Oct 2017 #87

Bingo- and everyone forgets, a LOT of people are really stupid in this country snooper2 Oct 2017 #99

++++++ well said. JHan Oct 2017 #121

Very well said, thank you n/t emulatorloo Oct 2017 #151

"Party of government" What about organized labor, the grassroots, people of color, LGBT, the poor? YoungDemCA Oct 2017 #157

You can be wary all you want. Democrats are the party of government. Caliman73 Oct 2017 #159

The OP changed the actual title and put their own spin on it ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #96

Russian propaganda was specifically targeted to black voters and young voters. pnwmom Oct 2017 #42

Yup!!! Wellstone ruled Oct 2017 #57

Exactly. Blue_true Oct 2017 #74

It also ignores the fact that if Bernie were the nominee, Russia STILL would have wanted Trump pnwmom Oct 2017 #77

The thing that bothers me more than Russians. Blue_true Oct 2017 #79

Of course they wouldn't have backed Bernie -- they would have attacked him like they attacked her. pnwmom Oct 2017 #80

Whoah there! Kentonio Oct 2017 #93

Gawd ananda Oct 2017 #44

Regardless of who manufactured the problem it exists. It has to be dealt with. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2017 #48

So your solution is Bernie. Blue_true Oct 2017 #76

You didn't even READ my post. Do not STUFF WORDS into my mouth. It is a DISGUSTING debating tactic. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2017 #88

Heard this analysis zentrum Oct 2017 #45

then we need to learn who to target and not keep heaping shit on the democratic brand. JHan Oct 2017 #54

Republicans *are* the problem. zentrum Oct 2017 #81

"Authentic" and messaging... JHan Oct 2017 #98

You can thank the complicit media for that. And those who pushed the meme... coolsandy Oct 2017 #46

After what has taken place since,,,,, Cryptoad Oct 2017 #53

Then, they are not paying attention because the Democratic Party hands down is better for the nation Mediumsizedhand Oct 2017 #55

2/3 of people get their news from FB these days, and FB was an anti-Hillary cesspool. pnwmom Oct 2017 #58

There was an is a lot of that going on. Mediumsizedhand Oct 2017 #59

Add those lies to 25 years of a relentless, coordinated conspiracy to destroy her and her Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #60

Then let's be bold because a bold economic agenda will not come from tinkering with the minimum wage JHan Oct 2017 #63

Has Clinton actually spoken on UBI? Very interesting. I can understand not running on UBI in JCanete Oct 2017 #153

It's one thing to say Dems have a messaging problem (w/ the corporate media partly to blame). Garrett78 Oct 2017 #64

Wait a minute...This wasn't a scientific poll... just a large "focus group"... farmbo Oct 2017 #66

Realistically, underprivileged people are pretty much doomed in the future. Robotics and AI LittleBlue Oct 2017 #67

AI is taking Nedical and Law jobs. Blue_true Oct 2017 #78

Not this shit again. we can do it Oct 2017 #68

Dems have an access to voting problem, a gerrymander problem, and a hacker problem. L. Coyote Oct 2017 #69

I think you're right. ucrdem Oct 2017 #83

Yep. And I would add we have a problem sticking to a message/platform/talking points Freethinker65 Oct 2017 #101

Actually, it hasn't been effective. Without the cheating, they are total LOSERS. L. Coyote Oct 2017 #149

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #70

It's a matter of getting them to vote as only 1/2 the people who can vote, do vote. uppityperson Oct 2017 #72

Democrats are too divided....they need to unite. kentuck Oct 2017 #71

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #75

" I'm not a member of any organized party; I'm a Democrat." Alice11111 Oct 2017 #85

So basically we need another Obama. ucrdem Oct 2017 #82

Excellent article. KPN Oct 2017 #118

#fakenews. stonecutter357 Oct 2017 #133

It dehumanizes people to define them by work output. ileus Oct 2017 #148