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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
30. Long or short, it's still all just assertions.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:47 AM
Oct 2017

Let me give you an (admittedly remote) analogy. Suppose a state constitution contains a provision that's worded identically to a provision in the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court holds that that provision in the U.S. Constitution doesn't prohibit the government (federal or state) from doing X. The state's highest court says, Oh yeah, well, we interpret those exact same words in our constitution differently, we say that the governmental action in question IS prohibited by those words, so our state government isn't allowed to do it, and you nine nitwits can take your federal supremacy and shove it up your robes.

This has actually happened, IIRC, although I believe the state court decision was worded somewhat more circumspectly.

A layperson might say that the state court was disagreeing with SCOTUS, the highest court in the land. Nevertheless, the principle of federal supremacy doesn't prevent the state from running its own affairs as it chooses, within limits. Each state can set its own standards for who gets a concealed-carry permit or a private investigator's license or the like (again, within limits, no racial discrimination etc.). If the state's law expressly provides that no one convicted of contempt of court may become a PI, whether or not he's pardoned, and whether the conviction was in state or federal court, does denying him a PI license violate the U.S. Constitution? I'm not convinced that it does. That's why I asked if it had ever been litigated.

As for the civil case, I see less uncertainty there. We don't need to get into admission against interest. With or without a plea, there was a finding of fact in court. That's res judicata against the defendant. The subsequent pardon means that no sentence can be imposed for the violation, but, as the judge stated in refusing to vacate Arpaio's conviction, the pardon doesn't affect the underlying finding of fact. If the pardon means that a federal court wouldn't hear an appeal of the conviction, because it's deemed moot, then there'd arguably be no res judicata, but if the state has the law I hypothesized then the appeal shouldn't be dismissed as moot. In the present case, it doesn't matter. Arpaio won't be so foolish as to file an appeal, because he'd get nothing for his trouble but a ringing 3-0 affirmance reiterating what a sleazeball he was.

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Sigh, well O.K. We are reduced to small victories. UTUSN Oct 2017 #1
Not so small if it prevents him from challenging Flake for Senate. Amimnoch Oct 2017 #4
Point taken in that sphere. But the substitute for ARPAIO against FLAKE will be around much longer. UTUSN Oct 2017 #5
Why in the world would that stop him from challenging Flake? former9thward Oct 2017 #21
As Horace Rumpole would have said, TomSlick Oct 2017 #2
Here, here. peequod Oct 2017 #6
Rumpole is my hero TomSlick Oct 2017 #9
Mine as well; nice quote! peequod Oct 2017 #12
This is a great thing. It means he has less of a defense when he is sued. bitterross Oct 2017 #3
Excellent point! Dustlawyer Oct 2017 #7
He is not getting sued. former9thward Oct 2017 #22
Good! SergeStorms Oct 2017 #8
Does he lose his right to vote, or to carry a firearm? EarnestPutz Oct 2017 #10
Doesn't matter whether the contempt is a felony. TomSlick Oct 2017 #11
I'm not sure about that. Jim Lane Oct 2017 #14
A federal pardon removes any disability from a federal conviction. TomSlick Oct 2017 #17
Has the issue of disabilities imposed by state law ever been litigated? Jim Lane Oct 2017 #20
It was a misdemeanor. former9thward Oct 2017 #23
As I'm fond of telling Arkansas lawyers (and judges) this issue was resolved in the 1860s. TomSlick Oct 2017 #25
Yes, I've heard of pre-emption. No, that glib response doesn't answer my question. (n/t) Jim Lane Oct 2017 #27
Glib responses only work when they're accurate. TomSlick Oct 2017 #28
Long or short, it's still all just assertions. Jim Lane Oct 2017 #30
I think I agree about the effect of the conviction and pardon in civil litigation. TomSlick Oct 2017 #32
I'm not getting that from the article. Amimnoch Oct 2017 #15
See Reply #17. TomSlick Oct 2017 #18
No, no and no. former9thward Oct 2017 #24
I haven't researched TomSlick Oct 2017 #26
The judge did not toss it from his record. He's still got a conviction. kcr Oct 2017 #29
Nope. former9thward Oct 2017 #31
The article you cite is loosely (and inaccurately) worded Jim Lane Oct 2017 #33
I agree with your summary. former9thward Oct 2017 #34
You raise a good question about why Arpaio cares. Jim Lane Oct 2017 #35
STFU and sit your tired ass down, ex-sherriff. oasis Oct 2017 #13
Sheriff Joe is a crook Gothmog Oct 2017 #16
You can't be pardoned for nothing, Sheriff Dumbfuck. Iggo Oct 2017 #19
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