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In reply to the discussion: Poll: Majority of White Americans Believe They Face Discrimination [View all]haele
(15,359 posts)7. Pretty sad that most of them don't realize that success used to be due to default social setting
Disclaimer - I grew up in the 1960's/1970's - where there was nothing subtle about Discrimination and Rights - when just looking at someone in a "higher social position" the wrong way could get you ostracized or killed.
Sure, there were "diamonds" and "trash" in every ethnic, gender, or cultural category that could face social or economic discrimination, but for the most part, what is listed below has been pretty much the way U.S. society has been.
From my personal historical analysis from inception to, well, about 2008 -
The Default Stereotypes for Social Success and/or Respect in the U.S.(everything else being equal):
1) Appearance of Access to Money
2) White
3) Male
4) Looks/Health/Lack of obvious Disability
5) Celebrity/Family and/or Church Connections
Lesser beneficial stereotypes:
6) Business Ownership
7) Level of Education leading to a Profession (Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Teacher, etc...)
8) Career/Employment with Authority or Enforcement position (Governance, Policing, Public service, Military)
9) Land Ownership
10) Primary Responsibility for Dependents (both working parent or stay-at home parent)
One should look at this as a point system, to make it more plain as to what "grants" privileges in this society, with the first position with the most point at 10 and the lowest position at 1, for a total of 55 points, 56 if one wants to start off with "Employed Citizen/Resident, native born or naturalized".
That's always been a step above Criminal/Felon/Delinquent or Non-Productive Citizen/Resident, which is generally rated as 0 - even if they are children, disabled, or elderly.
We are a cruel country to those who can't "be active", which I suspect comes from a virulent Calvinist trait amongst most of the early European settlers.
So, even though he's had pretty much everything handed to him, a guy like Donald Trump can be considered "successful" with 51 out of 55.
I'm granting him #4 basically because he's relatively healthy, and at least to the majority of people who don't vomit at the sight of him, he's cultivated the "look" of a success businessman or used car salesman (take your pick).
Historically, Access to Money or wealth automatically buys Respect and Power in the U.S. Increasingly, it seems that lack of access to money is now becoming codified as grounds for revoking rights as a citizen.
It's almost as if "you can't buy enough to live an American Lifestyle, you don't deserve the right to be an American".
After that, when you think of the Average Successful American as Media has portrayed one - what comes to mind?
A Healthy "Responsibly Moral" White Man with a happy family and a good social network around him.
Moral Hazards have always been anathema to Americans - a weakness, which means that the appearance of Godliness is a "strength".
After that, it's just a measure of where people generally fall out in average social settings. So the average White Male Worker with minimal education and no land ownership would see 26 "social" points to equivalent White Female Worker's 18 points and equivalent Minority Male Worker's 17 points when it comes to looking for a job. (Minority Female Workers historically faced a greater loss of social points - they typically had a social ranking averaging around 10 points...)
That same social benefit will occur in most police or authoritative interactions; the caveat being that while most White females and Minority Females face a default patronization, and most Minority Males faced a default criminalization.
For "White Americans" to believe they face discrimination is to pretty much admit that somehow, they've got the idea that White is no longer considered a "default", and they can't depend on that specious 9 point social advantage they they've been using over those who aren't White, (all other situations being equal). That's a major social drop for most Americans.
The only pity I feel for them is that they have so little confidence in their own abilities and that they apparently never realized that they depended so much on one particular social default to be able to compete with their fellow citizens, instead of their own talents and strengths.
If being "white" is no longer so important to get a job, a loan, or social respect any more, one needs to stop depending on social expectations to be able to get ahead...
Haele
Sure, there were "diamonds" and "trash" in every ethnic, gender, or cultural category that could face social or economic discrimination, but for the most part, what is listed below has been pretty much the way U.S. society has been.
From my personal historical analysis from inception to, well, about 2008 -
The Default Stereotypes for Social Success and/or Respect in the U.S.(everything else being equal):
1) Appearance of Access to Money
2) White
3) Male
4) Looks/Health/Lack of obvious Disability
5) Celebrity/Family and/or Church Connections
Lesser beneficial stereotypes:
6) Business Ownership
7) Level of Education leading to a Profession (Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Teacher, etc...)
8) Career/Employment with Authority or Enforcement position (Governance, Policing, Public service, Military)
9) Land Ownership
10) Primary Responsibility for Dependents (both working parent or stay-at home parent)
One should look at this as a point system, to make it more plain as to what "grants" privileges in this society, with the first position with the most point at 10 and the lowest position at 1, for a total of 55 points, 56 if one wants to start off with "Employed Citizen/Resident, native born or naturalized".
That's always been a step above Criminal/Felon/Delinquent or Non-Productive Citizen/Resident, which is generally rated as 0 - even if they are children, disabled, or elderly.
We are a cruel country to those who can't "be active", which I suspect comes from a virulent Calvinist trait amongst most of the early European settlers.
So, even though he's had pretty much everything handed to him, a guy like Donald Trump can be considered "successful" with 51 out of 55.
I'm granting him #4 basically because he's relatively healthy, and at least to the majority of people who don't vomit at the sight of him, he's cultivated the "look" of a success businessman or used car salesman (take your pick).
Historically, Access to Money or wealth automatically buys Respect and Power in the U.S. Increasingly, it seems that lack of access to money is now becoming codified as grounds for revoking rights as a citizen.
It's almost as if "you can't buy enough to live an American Lifestyle, you don't deserve the right to be an American".
After that, when you think of the Average Successful American as Media has portrayed one - what comes to mind?
A Healthy "Responsibly Moral" White Man with a happy family and a good social network around him.
Moral Hazards have always been anathema to Americans - a weakness, which means that the appearance of Godliness is a "strength".
After that, it's just a measure of where people generally fall out in average social settings. So the average White Male Worker with minimal education and no land ownership would see 26 "social" points to equivalent White Female Worker's 18 points and equivalent Minority Male Worker's 17 points when it comes to looking for a job. (Minority Female Workers historically faced a greater loss of social points - they typically had a social ranking averaging around 10 points...)
That same social benefit will occur in most police or authoritative interactions; the caveat being that while most White females and Minority Females face a default patronization, and most Minority Males faced a default criminalization.
For "White Americans" to believe they face discrimination is to pretty much admit that somehow, they've got the idea that White is no longer considered a "default", and they can't depend on that specious 9 point social advantage they they've been using over those who aren't White, (all other situations being equal). That's a major social drop for most Americans.
The only pity I feel for them is that they have so little confidence in their own abilities and that they apparently never realized that they depended so much on one particular social default to be able to compete with their fellow citizens, instead of their own talents and strengths.
If being "white" is no longer so important to get a job, a loan, or social respect any more, one needs to stop depending on social expectations to be able to get ahead...
Haele
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Poll: Majority of White Americans Believe They Face Discrimination [View all]
underpants
Oct 2017
OP
well, it sucks when you lose your high status. top culture is polka, hummels + golf.
pansypoo53219
Oct 2017
#2