General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: So Sanders is going back to running as an Indy for his senate seat. [View all]LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)I respect that. Even if I disagree with some of your premises.
A lot to go through.
Look at the length of this thread. It all started with yet another snide OP on Sanders, by a poster that has a history of that. So you will attract those that want to pile on, as well as those that see that pilling on and feel there should be some counter to that. The other kind of Bernie thread are those that are put up by supporters "Bernie destroys Trump...." Yet even those threads end up rife with posts slagging him. Why? Bernie supporters do not ask for that. We don't want to be continually defending his character against such attacks. But if we stand up for him, defend him, we are accused of "worshiping" him. Throwing back monikers like that against Sanders supporters is both lazy and ignorant. And does nothing to heal the divide.
He is respected. A lot. That is all. I can understand how those that do not respect him, could be confused and irrationally vindictive against those that do, but its not helping by lashing out about it.
And yes, it is about his positions on the issues. Do you really need me to list all of those out? That you don't believe Sanders supporters know what they are? Really? I could cut and paste from his website but I'll spare you. Here is the link of the issues he was working for:
https://ourrevolution.com/issues/
Yes Clinton had policy issue positions as well. It was not that those were not positive steps, and that we would not vote for her as she won the primary, its that Sanders went further. And some of us felt that it was time for that. It was the perfect storm. To push the boundaries, especially in this anti-establishment era we find ourselves in. It was not the time to dismiss single payer so casually with "its never going to happen". This kind of defeatist attitude is what irks many long time Democrats. Bernie represented the possibilities of what could be acomplished, maybe not today, or even tomorrow, but just that they were possible if America just heard enough about it. That it was in the lexicon. There is a word for when societal attitudes changes drastically in one go. That a new zeitgeist emerges. It happened suddenly, in historical terms, with gay marriage attitudes. (I doubt even the Gorsuch SCOTUS could ever get away with reversing their ruling). Same with pot legalization. Once those States have that right, good luck taking it away. And the same would be true with universal single payer (of some form).
That kind of boldness of policy is what attracted supporters to Sanders. It wasn't his crazy hair, or curmudgeonly old man charm. In fact, I'd like to know just what you and others think is the reason we were so smitten with him if not for his ideals and history working for progressive change? I keep hearing how he is regarded as some kind of saint, and worshipped, etc...but never an explanation describing just what that entails.
Yes IMO, Bernie would have won, based on the information. I did another search, but couldn't find any closer polling data of Bernie vs Trump closer to Nov 8. Those independents that would never vote for Hillary, because of fake news and other reasons, that would have supported Bernie would have made a difference. And just to dismiss their votes because they are "bad people", and you don't want them anyways, is not logical. A vote is a vote. They wouldn't be creating policy. They'd be useful tools towards getting Democrats elected. Tools that Hillary did not have at her disposal. And that he won in the primaries in those states where Clinton barely lost in the general also helps my argument. Not sure what you mean by "votes of the majority of Democrats" being "nullified". I would have faith that yourself and others who supported Hillary, if she would have lost, would have held your nose and voted for the Democratic party nominee, especially after Hillary would have urged you all to.
But yeah, I don't really want to keep talking about IFs. Either way, we have to move forward.
And no, Bernie was not the party of the affluent white male. That demographic went to Donald Trump. Here is a graph from this year about support breakdown for Bernie from last April:
http://resistancereport.com/politics/harvard-poll-bernie-supporters/
It just does no good to keep demonizing the man or his efforts in Washington. This loud bitter 20% of Democrats is very vocal on DU. But surely you can see it does no good to continually bash someone that your fellow Democrats regard so highly.
And come on, obviously evoking FDR as an example that Bernie is closest to, does not mean Jim Crow, back alley abortions, and LGBT asylums. Its about continuing the philosophical principles of a more egalitarian society that spends money to lift up the poorest to be more engaged and contribute more to society as opposed to lavishing the most wealthy in a scam where the cover is that this money will then trickle down to those that need it the most.