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In reply to the discussion: As Tensions Simmer, Poll Shows Majority of Democrats Want Bold Leftward Shift [View all]Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)223. I would be careful about missing the forest for the trees.
Here's part of what I wrote in #56:
Let's consider this poll in context. It shows the "further to the left" course supported by 52% of Democrats and opposed by 48%. If we were electing someone to office, 52-48 is very different from 48-52. But we're not voting on candidates. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the correct ratio were 52-48 against moving to the left. What matters is that, among Democrats, there is clearly a significant division of opinion. A large number support moving to the left, and a large number oppose that idea. Consider this poll, consider that Bernie Sanders got more than 40% of the votes in the primaries, consider the anecdotal evidence -- if anyone is contending that the "move further left" faction is a noisy minority of 10% or the like, I just can't consider that a credible position.
That's the forest -- that, among Democrats, there is clearly a significant division of opinion.
On DU, sniping at the Harvard-Harris Poll has often deflected attention from the important point. There are many Americans who are opposed to Trump and the GOP agenda. Among those Americans, however, their agreement on broad principles doesn't negate the existence of significant disagreements. For example, we all reject the Republican vision of a complete free market in health care, embodied in the "Repeal and go fuck yourselves" attacks on the ACA. Of the people who reject that vision, though, some favor single payer and some don't.
Of course, it's not two clearly defined factions. If we could interview every registered Democrat in the country about single payer and about raising the federal minimum wage to $15, the results would be strongly correlated but they wouldn't be perfect. Add in more issues and there'd be more untidiness.
As for McGinty, I didn't say that she was conservative in any absolute sense. I said that she's one of the candidates who "defeated more progressive opponents in their primary." That means that, in Pennsylvania, she was "the more conservative alternative" among the Democrats (emphasis added). Even among people who are to the left of Pat Toomey, there's room for some left-right variation.
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As Tensions Simmer, Poll Shows Majority of Democrats Want Bold Leftward Shift [View all]
guillaumeb
Oct 2017
OP
My thanks for posting also. I had planned to post something like this; but, ya beat me to it!!!
LongTomH
Oct 2017
#157
Those people weren't "acquired". They showed up because the message inspired them.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#14
OK. She said that. I don't agree with what she said. And I don't think you can assume
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#250
Which would be a valid point if there were any disagreements on those issues among progressives.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#252
When you respond tomorrow or whenver, could you clarify which point in that post
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#171
It is just not true...Sen. Sanders was not the candidate...and that poll is BS-looked at it a
Demsrule86
Oct 2017
#174
An interesting observation is that every issue and candidate in the 2016 election that Sanders
still_one
Oct 2017
#64
There was more than just four where he personnally participated. RussFeingold, Zephyr Teachout,
still_one
Oct 2017
#86
Do you believe that there are significant differences of opinion among Democrats? (n/t)
Jim Lane
Oct 2017
#225
Which is precisely why the claim of Sander's popularity among all others is a myth.
Wwcd
Oct 2017
#30
So Progressives should not speak of the man that epitomizes the Progressive Party???
Wwcd
Oct 2017
#100
Of course Wellstone should be spoken of. But he wouldn't want to be subject to a cult.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#124
Again - who said that Sanders' campaign was financed from an illegitimate source
ehrnst
Oct 2017
#144
The poster I was trying to respond to(Not YOU) talked about this mysterious "dump" of money.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#161
It WAS a response to someone else. I initially responded to you by accident.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#187
No. it was honestly meant to be a response to another poster-to post #100, to be precise.
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#191
Senator Wellstone opossed Sanders on Sierra Blanca. In this instance, Sen Wellston showed he was the
lunamagica
Oct 2017
#167
Of course they are! Unless they are United States citizens they can't vote in the U.S.
retread
Oct 2017
#85
He lost to one of the most hated democrats in history...by 4 million votes.
liquid diamond
Oct 2017
#66
No so much with Democrats in my opinion...but sure the some GOP like him but would not vote for him
Demsrule86
Oct 2017
#175
1) My point was precisely that we SHOULD be talking issues, not personalities
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#45
If he doesn't run again? It doesn't matter if he runs again. It won't be as a Democrat.
MrsCoffee
Oct 2017
#26
I certainly dont trust him/them. Hillary is stepping up to campaign for Northam.
MrsCoffee
Oct 2017
#82
What else would you call it, when there seems to be this great, relentless push
Ken Burch
Oct 2017
#121
I looked at it ...total crap...tried to prove the POC love Sen. Sanders a few days ago.
Demsrule86
Oct 2017
#176
Internet polls are about as reliable as commondreams.org. They are neither random, nor...........
Tarheel_Dem
Oct 2017
#28
I can get behind that. Experience and stability after this clusterfuck is a winning card, IMO.
Purveyor
Oct 2017
#58
Curious how you know this site is a "Kremlin Rag?" Is there some evidence linking it to the Russian
jalan48
Oct 2017
#52
Because you have questions about one article on a site it becomes a "Kremlin Rag"?
jalan48
Oct 2017
#57
Moving right is getting us nowhere. Attempting to reason with them is getting us nowhere.
Initech
Oct 2017
#50
Please list policies of the Democratic Party which are rightwing. What is Schumer or Pelosi
emulatorloo
Oct 2017
#204
You are surrounded by left liberals and progressives. Drop the "Centrist" smear.
emulatorloo
Oct 2017
#196
If ordinary people are the party then the party needs to adequately represent them, and it isn't.
Tobin S.
Oct 2017
#209
Feingold is not far enough to the left? He is a solid progressive. I do not understand
emulatorloo
Oct 2017
#200
There is an old saying about campaigning to the left and governing to the center.
kentuck
Oct 2017
#150
I look at this as a needed discussion of the future direction of the Party.
guillaumeb
Oct 2017
#156
Apparently, according to the "Very Serious People", that's a toxic issue to run on.
HughBeaumont
Oct 2017
#178
When push came to shove, mainstream Democrats didn't even want multi-payer.
HughBeaumont
Oct 2017
#189
Look at the states...and you sure as hell don't see much leftward movement.
Demsrule86
Oct 2017
#256