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magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
90. dressage training is based on the horses natural behavior
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:44 PM
Jul 2012

I'm not talking about winning money to justify the expense. I'm talking about getting something in return besides looking out the window at them or patting them on the nose and hugging them.

Again, I linked to my blog which has a picture of my horse doing a perfect canter pirouette on his own in his pasture for the fun of it. He showed me almost all the movements on his own, for the hell of it. So did my very first horse. And I've seen video after video of foals demonstrating all the movements. All of the upper level movements are natural to horses. Watch foals and you can see them all.

I don't think you do understand what I am saying and I don't think you understand dressage at all. Correct dressage training does not require hours and hours of training at a time. It's hours of training added up over years, and not all the time either.

Endurance riding requires hours and hours of training at a time. Cowponies are out on the range for hours and hours. Combined training horses need longer training times for the cross-country endurance phase.

One of the great modern dressage trainers, Reine Klimke, trained his string of horses during his lunch break. 15 minute warm up by his wife and children, 15-20 minutes "training," then 15 minute cool down.

When I was barn manager for a budding USET rider, she rode half a dozen horses within a couple hours. How does that square with horses being trained for "hours and hours at at time?" It doesn't.

When I was a student at the American Dressage Institute, back in the 70s, I spent hours of my time watching future stars (and a classmate who gave it up). I never saw anybody spending hours and hours at a time. They spent an hour tops, with half of that warm up and cool down. In between, they hacked out on the trails.

Some horses require more practice, others less. But if people are spending hours and hours at a time, they are either doing it wrong or overfeeding their horses.

And, btw, I've seen plenty of what I would call abuse by trail riders who haul on their horses mouths, have bad seats and bounce heavily up and down on their backs, and kick them in the sides to get them to go forward. A major part of dressage is about is learning to not pull or jab your horse's mouth, not bounce up and down on their backs, not kick them to go forward. It's about getting out of your horse's way so they can do what they do naturally when they don't have 150 pounds or so of human sitting on their backs. Yes, we give them direction and ask them to go one way or another...just as their herd leader would give the direction in the wild and say run now or stop and graze now or lets go get water now. It's more of a private partnership...I hate to use the word dance, but it is like a dance. An intimate relationship between the horse and human, with communication by touch and weight and muscle tension and relaxation.

My old boys ideal session was 20-30 minutes warming up by walking and trotting down a trail, maybe a short gallop to get the beans out of him, then 15-20 minutes training, and then free walk for 15 minutes to cool down. Hell, the majority of his training was in an apple orchard, interspersed with trail riding (which also included "training" as in perfecting my use of the aids and our timing).

"Preparing for standard horse shows does not require the horse to act in ways that are unnatural."

I'm not sure what you mean by "standard horse shows." Are you saying horses naturally go around jumping obstacle courses? Because they don't. They may jump a single obstacle if it's in their way, but entire courses? Nope. Are you saying they naturally run barrels? Nope. Naturally trot around in circles over and over? Nope.

Btw, in Europe, dressage *is* the standard horse show. Stadium jumping is just dressage with obstacles in the middle. Combined training is dressage with endurance and jumping added. There is also driving dressage...even with teams of horses.

Dressage is simply a system of training based on the natural movements of horses and their natural behavior. It facilitates communication between horse and rider, balance under the rider, and overall harmony. This is from the most basic levels up to the most advanced, including movements and gaits you can see horses perform when they are at play.

Dressage competition is intended to test the level and quality of training. Ideally, the competition is with yourself. That some people abuse it is not due to the discipline, but the individual. Same as *all* disciplines and *all* competition and *all* animals and people.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ann Romney = Animal Abuser [View all] Fawke Em Jul 2012 OP
Both Mitt and Ann have no empathy whatsoever... targetpractice Jul 2012 #1
My condolences laundry_queen Jul 2012 #115
Like any animal training, dressage can be done badly. Like dog agility, dolphin shows etc riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #2
Aw, come on kctim Jul 2012 #3
A simple search would show the OP that this video has come up at least 4 - 5 other times on DU riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #4
Fellow dressage rider here - right on! cilla4progress Jul 2012 #5
I'm willing to be bet that Olympic caliber horses Fawke Em Jul 2012 #7
You're right, they're not treated harmoniously riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #21
Then why did Romney have to drug the shit out of her horse adigal Jul 2012 #73
Honestly, it was probably her trainer who doped her horse to sell it. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #93
I don't belong to PETA Fawke Em Jul 2012 #8
you are clearly totally ignorant of dressage magical thyme Jul 2012 #10
I'm an animal rescuer, too. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #13
I am well aware of the differences between classical and competition dressage magical thyme Jul 2012 #26
ROLLKUR Aerows Jul 2012 #64
the thing is, there is no evidence that the Romneys or Ebeling use rollkur magical thyme Jul 2012 #67
True Aerows Jul 2012 #69
"over-mounted trainers" Aerows Jul 2012 #47
You serious? You think Romney types are going to be patient adigal Jul 2012 #74
the Romney's are not in charge of the training magical thyme Jul 2012 #77
if the OP had even bothered to read the link, she might have noticed magical thyme Jul 2012 #60
Knowing virtually nothing about horse dressage (maybe having horse before dressage is redundant?) sad sally Jul 2012 #66
the flashy horses do take pride. they are natural show-offs. nt magical thyme Jul 2012 #68
Hmmm... I've been riding horses for YEARS and have Fawke Em Jul 2012 #6
Neither have I, nor has virtually every other dressage rider on the face of the planet riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #12
It is in competition. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #16
I'm the owner and operator of a professional, competitive dressage and combined training barn riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #22
Exactly Aerows Jul 2012 #39
hmmm...I've been riding and training DRESSAGE horses for decades magical thyme Jul 2012 #14
If you've done all these things, why can't Fawke Em Jul 2012 #17
because I don't practice it or study it magical thyme Jul 2012 #28
Thank you Aerows Jul 2012 #40
Dressage is NOT abuse -- PLEASE STOP REPEATING THIS LIE magical thyme Jul 2012 #9
What lies? Fawke Em Jul 2012 #11
Modern dressage is not simply competition. That bit you've put up is used by virtually every western riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #20
I'm a Mrs. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #25
What controversy are you talking about with the bits or bridles at "EVERY" summer Olympics?? riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #31
good god yourself magical thyme Jul 2012 #24
Ooohhh...someone's been reading. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #27
I honestly do NOT CARE whether you believe me or not magical thyme Jul 2012 #33
Have you EVER ridden a horse before? Aerows Jul 2012 #43
I hear crickets magical thyme Jul 2012 #110
When I was little I made a little chair-ball-thing that anchored to the a cat harness snooper2 Jul 2012 #61
That kind of bit certainly exerts a great deal of pressure. LWolf Jul 2012 #111
Dressage is NOT abusive Redford Jul 2012 #15
Ah... but I do know about horse training. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #18
Credentials Please. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #37
I'd like to hear some credentials, too Aerows Jul 2012 #51
"Smelling shit once isn't nearly like shoveling a barn daily." NCTraveler Jul 2012 #55
It is a broad brush Aerows Jul 2012 #56
If you do "know about horse training," then you should know better matt819 Jul 2012 #83
Question for you...... soccer1 Jul 2012 #19
Every dressage movement is something a horse does in the wild, on their own riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #23
Thank you. soccer1 Jul 2012 #29
Sure they do. Watch any horse kept in a barn overnight get turned out in the am riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #34
Okay.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #41
this country was built on the backs of horses magical thyme Jul 2012 #46
Owning horses is one thing...... soccer1 Jul 2012 #48
dressage is the foundation of every other discipline magical thyme Jul 2012 #57
I understand your point of view...... soccer1 Jul 2012 #84
dressage training is based on the horses natural behavior magical thyme Jul 2012 #90
Nobody spends "hours" drilling their horse for competitions or at competitions! riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #95
You are educating me on the ways of dressage training and I.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #100
Oh I could wax rhapsodic about the perfect horse... However, for an upper level dressage horse? riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #103
I real appreciate your detailed responses....... soccer1 Jul 2012 #105
Thanks for your patience and willingness to listen. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #106
These are old skills that would be lost if someone didn't want to do it "for human pleasure" riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #101
I appreciate your informative response but soccer1 Jul 2012 #107
I should not generalize but most Amish view their horses like tires riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #108
Have you ever been around a pissed off mule? Aerows Jul 2012 #44
It's called collection Cherchez la Femme Jul 2012 #63
the levade is natural magical thyme Jul 2012 #78
3rd photo down on the right shows a pirouette at liberty magical thyme Jul 2012 #30
I would run a new ad. The horses were listed avebury Jul 2012 #32
Exactly!! This is what the focus should be - on the RMoney's fraud with Super Hit. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #35
That story made me sick Aerows Jul 2012 #38
She also shot up her training horse Aerows Jul 2012 #36
and this is the legitimate criticism that has been leveled at them magical thyme Jul 2012 #58
How the hell does riding a horse help M.S? amuse bouche Jul 2012 #42
Apparently, riding a horse can help MS patients with their balance soccer1 Jul 2012 #49
Now the posts are just degenerating to a level of idiocy not often seen on DU matt819 Jul 2012 #86
It helps a hell of a fucking lot, kurtzapril4 Jul 2012 #114
You mean, wild horses don't dance like this in nature? Atman Jul 2012 #45
Haven't seen any of the many horses in my area... soccer1 Jul 2012 #50
Okay, do I even have to ask... Atman Jul 2012 #53
Yes, I know you were being sarcastic.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #54
I lost my appetite for horseback riding lessons, because it occurred to me that the horses TwilightGardener Jul 2012 #52
I can understand how that could turn you off to riding magical thyme Jul 2012 #59
Silly? matt819 Jul 2012 #87
Yeah, I think it's silly. Right up there with synchronized swimming and that rhythmic gymnastic TwilightGardener Jul 2012 #104
I think so too. Cleita Jul 2012 #62
the practice of rollkur was banned a year after the linked video was taken magical thyme Jul 2012 #65
I can tell you love your horses:). Cleita Jul 2012 #71
my experience is that they do love what they are doing magical thyme Jul 2012 #76
I don't consider obedience training of dogs in the same category. Cleita Jul 2012 #79
Its probably more akin to dog obedience training than anything else. Its to make the horse a partner riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #97
Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #70
I don't know anything about this sport Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #72
I think sled dog racing is different, but maybe.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #75
sled dogs occasionally die in the Iditerod magical thyme Jul 2012 #80
Yes, occasionally dogs die on the Iditarod, Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #85
Have there been no deaths in the past three years because of.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #89
I think the rules have always been pretty clear, Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #92
Thank you for your response.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #96
No, the sled dogs aren't pushed. Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #82
You can't force a horse to do it either - they'll simply lie down. They go because they want to riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #98
Oh, please matt819 Jul 2012 #81
Just to be clear.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #88
What is it with the antagonism to horses matt819 Jul 2012 #91
Of course most people who interact with horses are not abusers...... soccer1 Jul 2012 #94
Any kind of riding or pulling does not come naturally to a horse. LWolf Jul 2012 #112
Disgusting and horrific. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #99
and not dressage. It was found out, elevated to authorities and banned as a practice. magical thyme Jul 2012 #109
It's not a living thing, it's property... Amerigo Vespucci Jul 2012 #102
Dressage training is not abuse. Dressage movements are natural. magical thyme Jul 2012 #113
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