General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

130. Yes, I mean as an independent, per the OP.

Sat Nov 4, 2017, 02:29 AM

Nov 2017

My point is that, in the bright red Southern states, it wouldn't matter whether Bernie endorsed Clinton (as he actually did) or instead ran in November as an independent. Either way, Trump was carrying those states.

Florida is a Southern state that is not bright red. She lost by only 1.2%, so you can think about how she might have turned it around in the actual matchup. If Bernie had been on the November ballot as an independent, however, Trump's lead over Clinton would have been much greater. Bernie lost the primary but still got more than half a million votes, about five times as many as Trump's margin over Clinton in November. If Bernie had chosen an independent run, Clinton's task in Florida, as in many other states, would have been hopeless. Trump would have won the popular vote in reality (instead of just in his own imagination) and would have padded his Electoral College lead, as Bernie's "spoiler" effect would have cost Clinton some close states like New Hampshire.

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Would you rather of had Bernie run for President as an independent?! [View all] Joe941 Nov 2017 OP

Yes, he should run as what he is comradebillyboy Nov 2017 #1

Yes. NurseJackie Nov 2017 #2

At this point yes, more bad than good came out of him running as a dem uponit7771 Nov 2017 #3

Yes. And my preferece is he work directly for the GOP and "help' them out for a change. GeneMcM Nov 2017 #120

Yes, he should have run as an Independent. Doodley Nov 2017 #4

yes n/t handmade34 Nov 2017 #5

Everyone saying yes to this is crazy Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #6

Agreed. Garrett78 Nov 2017 #10

You're right, because time machines don't exist. kcr Nov 2017 #32

Nationally he would have been just a blip on the radar if he'd run as an independent. brush Nov 2017 #36

Yet Stein is basically the anti-christ on here who cost Clinton the election Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #37

Just look at the early, southern primaries where he lost state after state. brush Nov 2017 #44

and being a blip is really what the democratic process is about...The fact that his exposure has JCanete Nov 2017 #50

He was known by politically active progressives and liberals, not to rank and file Dems. brush Nov 2017 #58

not than Hillary, no. I meant than stein. He would have more likely played spoiler, in the mold of JCanete Nov 2017 #67

"Basically, he shouldn't have run at all is the real message." Wow, I really did misunderstand. brush Nov 2017 #70

heh, I didn't mean that was my message, and I disagree that would have been the result. nt JCanete Nov 2017 #73

Well what are you saying. Be clear. brush Nov 2017 #74

I meant anybody saying he should have run as an independent is really saying he shouldn't have run. JCanete Nov 2017 #77

Is there a reason that you can't accept that Bernie's ideas resonated? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #82

No one said his ideas didn't resonate. I'm saying as an independence who would've even been... brush Nov 2017 #116

If that were true. he would have been the nominee...he wasn't. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #122

Under the rules, no he wasn't. shanny Nov 2017 #126

Winning the nomination isn't the only test of resonance. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #132

Clinton loses those Southern states with or without Bernie on the ballot Jim Lane Nov 2017 #85

Check your headline. It makes no sense. brush Nov 2017 #117

Yes, I mean as an independent, per the OP. Jim Lane Nov 2017 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author brush Nov 2017 #135

You can never know how something not done would have gone karynnj Nov 2017 #123

Good points. Perot is an even more recent example. He took away enough votes from HW Bush... brush Nov 2017 #124

It is very interesting to me. Joe941 Nov 2017 #48

No. Clinton wouldn't have won the popular vote and the Dem Party would have been hurt more. Garrett78 Nov 2017 #7

I kindly disagree... flying_wahini Nov 2017 #12

Very few Trump voters would have voted for Sanders. Garrett78 Nov 2017 #15

I don't agree. louis c Nov 2017 #19

You might be surprised TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #22

I don't buy that...talk is cheap. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #41

yep here we go again. that instantance without any evidence at all. GeneMcM Nov 2017 #127

There were Obama to Trump voters Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #23

I don't think that is true. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #40

Which part? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #46

That is refighting the primary...and if Sen. Sanders had not run at all, Hillary Clinton would be Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #53

No there were Republicans who switched to Obama and then switched back to voting Republican emulatorloo Nov 2017 #80

My son is now an ardent Trump supporter MadCrow Nov 2017 #31

Your son is a right winger...you have my sympathies...and I don't think anyone who could vote Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #39

I'm doing a project for a customer who says... Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2017 #42

I find that to be bullshit...talk is cheap.The righties would love to keep the Bernie/Hillary Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #55

and we don't know what ammo was waiting for another candidate delisen Nov 2017 #102

I was a Bernie supporter MadCrow Nov 2017 #128

The "passion" for Sanders on the campuses wasn't enough to motivate them them to vote for him lunamagica Nov 2017 #59

exactly... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #121

I think people are looking for someone to blame. Joe941 Nov 2017 #49

His claims of not splitting the vote are not believable when you match them R B Garr Nov 2017 #8

Yes. MrsCoffee Nov 2017 #9

I admire Bernie as a gadfly and visionary. I never thought he had much chance as a highplainsdem Nov 2017 #11

Better for him in what way? Not financially. Not electorally. No, it wouldn't have been seaglass Nov 2017 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author jalan48 Nov 2017 #14

Thats what he is, isnt he? EffieBlack Nov 2017 #16

As an independent he can pick and choose what Dem positions he wants to embrace...but just don't Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #24

He also ran as a Democrat for the publicity mythology Nov 2017 #17

And spent most of the money he received as publicity instead of helping the party and the DNC. coolsandy Nov 2017 #20

What difference did it make? (NT) louis c Nov 2017 #18

Absolutely..he would have disappeared from the scene Fresh_Start Nov 2017 #21

Yes. It would have been more honest in the end. Blaukraut Nov 2017 #25

"the system was stacked against him" LexVegas Nov 2017 #26

No doubt about it. Primaries are fully being re-fought. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #27

Knowing what we know now... radical noodle Nov 2017 #28

Yes, he would have been honest WhiteTara Nov 2017 #29

And his candidate profile got help from Russia pandr32 Nov 2017 #56

Scary, isn't it? WhiteTara Nov 2017 #72

Many do not want to acknowledge Russia's hand pandr32 Nov 2017 #114

and Bernie and supporters have been much too slow to acknowledge delisen Nov 2017 #113

I believe Sanders has been mum about it as well. pandr32 Nov 2017 #115

hey should have gotten off the stage if he wasn't going to join the Democrat party Rene Nov 2017 #30

"Democrat" Party? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2017 #45

Good catch. delisen Nov 2017 #101

I'd rather he had run away over the horizon. DavidDvorkin Nov 2017 #33

Condescending remarks????? moda253 Nov 2017 #34

Have had. nt Codeine Nov 2017 #35

Indeed. Good catch. Joe941 Nov 2017 #47

Yes, I would have rather Sen. Sanders run as an independent...the damage to the party would not have Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #38

Yes. Tavarious Jackson Nov 2017 #43

Yes. Even if we lost last election as a result, liquid diamond Nov 2017 #51

Ralph Nader updated for 2016? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #52

Of course it would have split the progressive vote. Jim Lane Nov 2017 #86

We always need to be prepared for the third party delisen Nov 2017 #109

And Democrats can hope to appeal to the third party voters. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #110

Bernie is not a Democrat. Bernie is not Presidential material as he could not democratisphere Nov 2017 #54

Sanders does not define as Democrat, but his voting record is 95% democrat Reiyuki Nov 2017 #57

I'm reminded of this quote from a recent Daily Beast post NurseJackie Nov 2017 #66

So I guess Bernie is part of the establishment he delisen Nov 2017 #111

It's a useless question. He wouldn't have run as an independent under any circumstances Ken Burch Nov 2017 #60

Actually it's an interesting question. He may have, and he still may. NurseJackie Nov 2017 #71

The guy has based his entire political strategy on working in alliance with Dems. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #75

LOL! NurseJackie Nov 2017 #76

When you respond like that, it's an admission that you have no argument against what I've said. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #79

LOL! It's an "admission" of no such thing. NurseJackie Nov 2017 #81

There's nothing to laugh about. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #87

LOL NurseJackie Nov 2017 #88

Ok...if you're saying "wrong", what ELSE do you think we disagree about? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #91

Oh brother! NurseJackie Nov 2017 #92

OK...I hadn't thought of an assessment of what a particular politician might do Ken Burch Nov 2017 #106

No, I don't wish he'd run as a spoiler. But I do wish... moriah Nov 2017 #61

Yes.because it would have shown honesty. The fact that he changed to independent when he didn't get lunamagica Nov 2017 #62

Not if it meant Bernie would be a Ralph Nader II. VOX Nov 2017 #63

No. I'd rather that he had conceded by early May when the mathematical loss occurred, pnwmom Nov 2017 #64

This is the sad, pathetic and unvarnished truth. So many things could have been... NurseJackie Nov 2017 #89

I'm tired of these endless falsehoods about Bernie's campaigning for Hillary. Jim Lane Nov 2017 #90

You're right. He finally endorsed her on July 12, more than 2 months after her win was certain. pnwmom Nov 2017 #97

Just the links I gave show that the quotation from "USA Today" is false. Jim Lane Nov 2017 #98

No. treestar Nov 2017 #65

Yes. If you are an independent then you should run as one. If you want to run as a Dem than you Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #68

YES! Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #69

Yes mainstreetonce Nov 2017 #78

At this point yes. From what I've seen the last few days, this party is in terminal decline LittleBlue Nov 2017 #83

It would have made the Russians' jobs a lot easier. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2017 #84

At the time I thought he was fine running as a Dem. CTyankee Nov 2017 #93

No. I was glad to vote for him in the Democratic primary. David__77 Nov 2017 #94

If Bernie had won the nomination Jeb Bush would be in the WHite House today. mikehiggins Nov 2017 #95

The system was not remotely stacked against him. He had every opportunity to win. StevieM Nov 2017 #96

How many peeps who say yes also attack Jill Stein for running as a green? LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #99

I see your points. I'll just speak for myself but I don't want to run liberals out of the party but Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #105

From my point of view, the purity tests havent been from the liberals on this site LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #134

It is not about the things you listed. It's about integrity and honesty. He changed back to lunamagica Nov 2017 #125

He never said he was going to be a democrat if he lost LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #133

A "team player?" Not hardly. Adrahil Nov 2017 #100

In the words of some of his supporters he delisen Nov 2017 #107

He reminds me of.... Adrahil Nov 2017 #108

I'd rather he not have run at all NastyRiffraff Nov 2017 #103

Is a Democratic Socialist a "Democrat"? kentuck Nov 2017 #104

Jill Stein was an I... Peachhead22 Nov 2017 #112

I'm not sure that Jill Stein took votes away from Democrats? kentuck Nov 2017 #118

Prefered having a spoiler candidate? No of course not. Kentonio Nov 2017 #119

Yes. Snackshack Nov 2017 #129

hell yes. ucrdem Nov 2017 #131

I Would of {sic} Still Voted for Hillary Clinton. MineralMan Nov 2017 #136

I think it would've been a grand statement if he had done so. romanic Nov 2017 #137