General Discussion

Hamlette

(15,556 posts)

39. No. 1,000 times NO.

Sat Nov 4, 2017, 12:52 PM

Nov 2017

I'm the reason we have super delegates. Or one of them. I've been active in politics since the 60s. We brought you McCarthy in 1972 (he went on to vote for Reagan in 1980), McGovern who was a wonderful man but only won one state (and DC) and Gary Hart, another wonderful man (mostly) but an idiot. All three, for one reason or another, were terrible candidates and lost. And that's why the party decided on super delegates.

You think of super delegates as fat cats but they are state elected officials, elected by the state party, or representatives of interest groups like labor.

As was mentioned upthread, insurgents/populists sometimes look great but our experience with them is terrible. 3 losers on our side and Trump on theirs.

I used to think of populist as a positive term, now I know why others do not.

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Here is an in-house fight I think most DUers would agree on - get rid of Super Delagates! [View all] RiverStone Nov 2017 OP

Yes onecaliberal Nov 2017 #1

What needs to be gotten rid of are caucuses. They limit voter participation to those who have... brush Nov 2017 #89

This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2017 #113

Totally agree. LisaM Nov 2017 #128

Actually the polls show the Republicans love Trump LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #150

Most repug rank and file are lockstep sheep who will always poll in favor of other repugs. brush Nov 2017 #175

I kinda like caucusing BBG Nov 2017 #151

Meet the neighbors who have opportunity and can afford to go. KitSileya Nov 2017 #155

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2017 #187

Low barriers to participation here BBG Nov 2017 #194

Absolutely! lunamagica Nov 2017 #181

Nah. Down with authoritarianism KPN Nov 2017 #205

If it's so simple, pls explain. brush Nov 2017 #223

If you want true democratic process, eliminate authoritarian structure. KPN Nov 2017 #227

If the repugs had had super delegates we wouldn't have trump in the White House. brush Nov 2017 #228

This message was self-deleted by its author Cartoonist Nov 2017 #2

+1 Sneederbunk Nov 2017 #3

Not really... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #4

There are 712 SDs, many are DNC party "elites" - simply put... RiverStone Nov 2017 #10

Out of more than 4,000 delegates... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #13

Even at 20%, thats 20% less Democratic than we should be. N/T RiverStone Nov 2017 #18

You feel very strongly about this... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #23

Voted DEM my entire voting life of 40+ years RiverStone Nov 2017 #37

I'm afraid I agree Wounded Bear, but it's because of the Hortensis Nov 2017 #66

I so agree! radical noodle Nov 2017 #230

.. fallout87 Nov 2017 #30

Almost like a safety valve. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #82

archaic? since 1980. Hamlette Nov 2017 #24

The CBC and other key groups disagree with this concept Gothmog Nov 2017 #99

Party elites? murielm99 Nov 2017 #109

Except we don't. Kentonio Nov 2017 #161

How is this even debatable? People's vote should count... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #226

Get rid of both caucuses and SD- let the people decide! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #36

I agree, but I suspect youll be surprised. TDale313 Nov 2017 #5

Trump is a populist. Hamlette Nov 2017 #22

Trump won. What is your point? That we shouldnt use winning strategies? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #38

Donald Trump is no populist. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #50

Of course he is. There are reactionary RW populists emulatorloo Nov 2017 #54

Of course not. A populist is opposite of a libertarian. Trump is a right conservative. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #67

His campaign was all populist rhetoric. It is revisionist history to say it wasn't emulatorloo Nov 2017 #70

Can and was are two different things, and they are measured across ALL ideologies. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #86

Populism is not bad. TDale313 Nov 2017 #58

Populism is almost always bad and populist leaders almost always demagogues. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #203

One word...McGovern. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #51

There was no populist that even entered the Democratic primary at the beginning. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #64

Which is exactly why we need them GulfCoast66 Nov 2017 #75

Caucuses romana Nov 2017 #6

Perhaps it does not have to be an either/or choice? RiverStone Nov 2017 #16

Right romana Nov 2017 #21

Its a worthwhile debate until (if) we reach consensus! RiverStone Nov 2017 #28

I support getting rid of both!!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #40

Get rid of the caucus. nt LexVegas Nov 2017 #7

And SD together! Support a democratic Democratic Party! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #42

No, I don't agree at all. The people who put in hours and marybourg Nov 2017 #8

They have no more right to more of a voice than a working mother who doesnt have time to do that! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #52

I think you missed a "not." And whether you support a party or not, you still have voting right. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #78

And some people dont have the ability to put the time in-but they are just as deserving LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #84

Please. We live in a time when one misplaced tweet can ruin a good person. I don't want mob rule. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #93

No you dont want democracy! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #112

I'm OK with a federation. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #225

Your post expresses my feelings also. If the Republicans justhanginon Nov 2017 #69

Not to mention romana Nov 2017 #77

That sounds dangerously close whopis01 Nov 2017 #186

Nope, its dangeoursly close to wanting competency is what it is dangerously close to. stevenleser Nov 2017 #204

I guess some people are more competent voters than others whopis01 Nov 2017 #229

Yes, get rid of Super Delegates. democrank Nov 2017 #9

Get rid of caucuses. N/t FSogol Nov 2017 #11

Absolutely, it is not democratic. n/t demmiblue Nov 2017 #12

Nope! Get rid of caucuses! Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #14

Get rid of both at the same time!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #53

Caucuses are very undemocratic Gothmog Nov 2017 #100

Definitely. H2O Man Nov 2017 #15

Get rid of SDs and caucuses. BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #17

Let's hope there is a vigorous debate on this at the leadership level! RiverStone Nov 2017 #19

HELL FUCK NO !!! No one wants a DNC version of Red Don uponit7771 Nov 2017 #20

You mean someone who can win and put more liberal justices on SCotUS? Yes please!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #56

Win at any cost?! hell no !? uponit7771 Nov 2017 #57

The cost of being more Democratic and true to the values we claim to espouse? Hell yes! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #62

Why? They've never been determinative of the result frazzled Nov 2017 #25

Cause being pro-active and avoiding problems is a good thing. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #61

First, get rid of the... Mike Nelson Nov 2017 #26

Agreed. The caucus system is rigged. Get rid of it! democratisphere Nov 2017 #31

Get rid of super delegates and the electoral college. democratisphere Nov 2017 #27

+1 rec to that RiverStone Nov 2017 #32

Bearing in mind that we cant get rid of the Electoral College brooklynite Nov 2017 #35

But we can neutralize it. shanny Nov 2017 #45

It is time to bring our voting systems and procedures out of the stone age. democratisphere Nov 2017 #46

The National Popular Vote interstate compact can get rid of the Electoral College Gothmog Nov 2017 #129

No greeny2323 Nov 2017 #29

There are still not going to be others who wont get to serve! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #72

Not yet considering the disaster that befell us from the Republithug side. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #33

Get rid of both at the same time! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #74

What indication do you have that SD votes are bought? brooklynite Nov 2017 #34

I have an issue when a candidate can have 400+ SD before a single vote is cast!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #76

I don't. It means there is something compelling about that candidate. Plus, they can change their stevenleser Nov 2017 #206

No. 1,000 times NO. Hamlette Nov 2017 #39

uh, wot? shanny Nov 2017 #48

Trump is an example of why we need to get rid of SD LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #92

You have that 180 degrees wrong. SDs are there to stop a populist demagogue like Trump getting stevenleser Nov 2017 #208

Trump is the reason why we have them and the RNC wished it had them too in 2016 themaguffin Nov 2017 #231

I am ok with superdelegates comradebillyboy Nov 2017 #41

Of course not grantcart Nov 2017 #43

thank you.... dhill926 Nov 2017 #55

Thank you !! uponit7771 Nov 2017 #59

Well said! Nt procon Nov 2017 #65

I wish I could rec this post /nt romana Nov 2017 #81

Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #111

Your statement that it is not democratic has absolutely no basis in fact which is easily disproved. grantcart Nov 2017 #149

It is very much based in fact. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #165

You have a very two dimensional understanding of a three dimensional organism grantcart Nov 2017 #195

Your analysis is totally wrong Gothmog Nov 2017 #214

Needs to be an OP WyLoochka Nov 2017 #193

Thanks, this isn't about SDs of course, just another attempt to re-litigate the primary grantcart Nov 2017 #196

I agree with your analysis Gothmog Nov 2017 #213

Great post Gothmog Nov 2017 #216

Well so much for everyone will agree on.. dembotoz Nov 2017 #44

Ha! Well, I'm open to my assumption on agreeing being wrong. RiverStone Nov 2017 #107

I do not agree. They serve a purpose. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #47

Yup: brave defenders of the status quo shanny Nov 2017 #49

I would love some DNC status quo right now, even better reason to keep them uponit7771 Nov 2017 #60

yes, it is working so well for us shanny Nov 2017 #73

Nah it's more complicated than that. But of course you reduce all DU'ers to "Status Quo" if they emulatorloo Nov 2017 #63

didn't say one fucking word about all DU'ers shanny Nov 2017 #71

You call me 'status quo' because I disagree with you... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #80

Gaslighters 'R Us emulatorloo Nov 2017 #91

reading comprehension is key shanny Nov 2017 #209

Yeah...I see one reply was deleted too. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #218

so what? I thought better of landing on someone over a mistake shanny Nov 2017 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author shanny Nov 2017 #199

didn't call you anything. called the superdelegates something.period. shanny Nov 2017 #201

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Nov 2017 #85

Super delegates. Sorry if that wasn't obvious. shanny Nov 2017 #197

didn't reply to dembotoz... shanny Nov 2017 #200

My mistake, correcting emulatorloo Nov 2017 #219

OK. A basis for discussion. shanny Nov 2017 #222

If it is not broken don't fix it...they serve a purpose. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #79

Yeah to pervert democracy and make us look like hypocrites. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #114

I think you'll find that most DUers don't necessarily agree with you. MineralMan Nov 2017 #68

Thank you MineralMan, I was tiring of this discussion and you restored my faith in reason. c-rational Nov 2017 #95

I became tired of it with the misspelling of 'delegates." MineralMan Nov 2017 #96

Maybe if the GOP had SDs 45 would not have been the GOP nominee AJT Nov 2017 #83

So it would have prevented them from having a winning ticket. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #115

Yes, and as I said to GOPers many times leading up to it, losing an election isnt the worst outcome. stevenleser Nov 2017 #210

Eliminate open primaries and caucuses and I'd support that. NT Adrahil Nov 2017 #87

I would support that too. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #116

No. You think we'd have better off if, like the R's, we had no way to put the brakes on an insane pnwmom Nov 2017 #88

So it would have prevented them from having a winning ticket that they strongly approve of? LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #117

The superdelegates could have saved the country. And Obama made some great appointments pnwmom Nov 2017 #123

Yes Obama made great appointments to the SCotUS as did Bill LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #130

I am advocating for a system with a backstop against insane candidates pnwmom Nov 2017 #132

Appealing to people is called Democracy. It is the foundational principle of the Party LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #135

We're stuck with the electoral college, so we might as well benefit from the one feature pnwmom Nov 2017 #136

Trump isnt a democrat or liberal, the SD had no effect on him LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #140

The GOP has no superdelegates. That's why they had no effect on him. n/t pnwmom Nov 2017 #156

And they won... nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #158

Our whole country lost. They didn't think he could beat Hillary, and they would have pnwmom Nov 2017 #159

They did have a chance. And they did vote...for Trump. nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #166

No, there were no superdelegates to vote against DT. But Republican office-holders pnwmom Nov 2017 #167

Against the wishes of the Republican electorate. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #171

Yes. Because they were certain other candidates would have been stronger against Hillary. pnwmom Nov 2017 #173

If the repugs had SDs trump would have never caught Bush by the time he got into the race. brush Nov 2017 #185

Yes, it would, and that is a good thing. See my #210 above. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #211

Let's see if I understand this louis c Nov 2017 #90

I believe that's the idea. Who cares about Democrats MineralMan Nov 2017 #98

how about this compromise louis c Nov 2017 #102

That's not my call, really. MineralMan Nov 2017 #105

That is what this proposal is going for which is why the CBC opposes it Gothmog Nov 2017 #101

The only think we ever agree on is an in-house fight and another and another............ IADEMO2004 Nov 2017 #94

Congressional Black Caucus: Keep superdelegate system in place Gothmog Nov 2017 #97

A popular vote system would address their concerns AND be more democratic. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #120

I stand with the CBC Gothmog Nov 2017 #124

Abdicating all thought to others is your prerogative. I like to think for myself tyvm! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #131

So you do not value a significant percentage of the party's base? Gothmog Nov 2017 #134

I VALUE ALL THE BASE, not just parts of it LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #137

And so you want to deny mrmbers of the CBC their status as important part of the party Gothmog Nov 2017 #153

I am not denying them any status. I am elevating everyone to the same status. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #157

So are you willing to rid of undemocratic caucuses? Gothmog Nov 2017 #170

Absolutely! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #172

We can get rid of caucuses but super delegates need to stay Gothmog Nov 2017 #191

You use strawman arguments frequently in your comments under this OP. Its very discrediting stevenleser Nov 2017 #212

Agreed Gothmog Nov 2017 #215

Nobody Supported the DNC Chair Candidate that wanted to get rid of JI7 Nov 2017 #103

Agree, and the Electoral College n/t TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #104

If the GOP had SDs, they may not have ended up with DJT. nt Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #106

You mean the nominee that won the election and is popular with their base? LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #121

A candidate/pResident who is destroying the party. nt Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #163

This is nonsense. murielm99 Nov 2017 #108

Its not nonsense, and all those things AND SD need to go. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #122

I have already explained my position on this, murielm99 Nov 2017 #125

So you arent able to defend your naive and divisive position that weakens the party. That is fine. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #133

Goodbye. murielm99 Nov 2017 #138

Saiyonara! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #141

I stand with the Congressional Black Caucus Gothmog Nov 2017 #126

Are you trying to say that my two Senators, murielm99 Nov 2017 #110

Oh, good Lord! This again? NurseJackie Nov 2017 #118

Get rid of the Trump administration. Iggo Nov 2017 #119

Nope. Get rid of caucuses LisaM Nov 2017 #127

And super delegates too! We are the Democratic Party lets act like it! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #142

After trump fiasco? No. Hell no ecstatic Nov 2017 #139

Trump won. You are saying you dont want us to win? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #143

Not if the nominee is an ignorant, racist, criminal POS. Nt ecstatic Nov 2017 #144

So youd give the election to an even more ignorant, racist, criminal PoS republican? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #146

Um, no. The superdelegates would have prevented that person from becoming the nominee ecstatic Nov 2017 #148

So again, you are fine with LOSING and getting a worse republican LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #154

I think you need to take a step back and familiarize ecstatic Nov 2017 #160

I am aware of the logic behind Super delegates LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #169

And for the record, I'm against SDs and caucuses too! RiverStone Nov 2017 #174

you forgot the ".. with the help of the Russians ... " part no? tia uponit7771 Nov 2017 #183

Nah, the supers should have given Donna B the heave-ho ucrdem Nov 2017 #145

Convention delegates have no role in appointing DNC Chairs brooklynite Nov 2017 #179

Do you know what SDs are and how they are chosen? Hekate Nov 2017 #147

I agree with you louis c Nov 2017 #177

Yes. CentralMass Nov 2017 #152

That's a kind of protection I don't want to give up. It will keep folks like Trump away from the coolsandy Nov 2017 #162

I remember fondly advocating for this joet67 Nov 2017 #164

Maybe get rid Meowmee Nov 2017 #168

Do you have a link? lapucelle Nov 2017 #176

I'm ambivalent. To date superdelegates have never been a deciding factor in a Dem primary. tandem5 Nov 2017 #178

I've been trying to think of how I would design the system if we could start over. TomSlick Nov 2017 #180

Get rid of caucasus and the EC. They are both undemocratic lunamagica Nov 2017 #182

You either are in favor of super delegates or democracy whopis01 Nov 2017 #184

I wonder what was in Tad Devine's head lapucelle Nov 2017 #188

Yes, get rid of Super Delagates. aikoaiko Nov 2017 #189

I agree with that Bettie Nov 2017 #190

No. Trump is the best reason for keeping some measure of control by people with brains. Persondem Nov 2017 #192

I agree with you. I think the Democratic Party should be ... dawg Nov 2017 #198

No, SDs don't bother me. I am less a fan of caucuses. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #202

Agreed ... completely. KPN Nov 2017 #207

gt rid of caucuses first delisen Nov 2017 #217

I'm gonna go with the Congressional Black Caucus: NO VermontKevin Nov 2017 #220

Yes definitely. Owl Nov 2017 #224

I was a delegate to the national convention and I have read DNC rules on voting Gothmog Nov 2017 #232