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Persondem

(2,101 posts)

192. No. Trump is the best reason for keeping some measure of control by people with brains.

Reply to RiverStone (Original post)

Sun Nov 5, 2017, 10:54 AM

Nov 2017

If the GOP had SD's then we likely would not have this CF of an administration "running" the country.

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Here is an in-house fight I think most DUers would agree on - get rid of Super Delagates! [View all] RiverStone Nov 2017 OP

Yes onecaliberal Nov 2017 #1

What needs to be gotten rid of are caucuses. They limit voter participation to those who have... brush Nov 2017 #89

This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2017 #113

Totally agree. LisaM Nov 2017 #128

Actually the polls show the Republicans love Trump LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #150

Most repug rank and file are lockstep sheep who will always poll in favor of other repugs. brush Nov 2017 #175

I kinda like caucusing BBG Nov 2017 #151

Meet the neighbors who have opportunity and can afford to go. KitSileya Nov 2017 #155

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2017 #187

Low barriers to participation here BBG Nov 2017 #194

Absolutely! lunamagica Nov 2017 #181

Nah. Down with authoritarianism KPN Nov 2017 #205

If it's so simple, pls explain. brush Nov 2017 #223

If you want true democratic process, eliminate authoritarian structure. KPN Nov 2017 #227

If the repugs had had super delegates we wouldn't have trump in the White House. brush Nov 2017 #228

This message was self-deleted by its author Cartoonist Nov 2017 #2

+1 Sneederbunk Nov 2017 #3

Not really... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #4

There are 712 SDs, many are DNC party "elites" - simply put... RiverStone Nov 2017 #10

Out of more than 4,000 delegates... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #13

Even at 20%, thats 20% less Democratic than we should be. N/T RiverStone Nov 2017 #18

You feel very strongly about this... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #23

Voted DEM my entire voting life of 40+ years RiverStone Nov 2017 #37

I'm afraid I agree Wounded Bear, but it's because of the Hortensis Nov 2017 #66

I so agree! radical noodle Nov 2017 #230

.. fallout87 Nov 2017 #30

Almost like a safety valve. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #82

archaic? since 1980. Hamlette Nov 2017 #24

The CBC and other key groups disagree with this concept Gothmog Nov 2017 #99

Party elites? murielm99 Nov 2017 #109

Except we don't. Kentonio Nov 2017 #161

How is this even debatable? People's vote should count... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #226

Get rid of both caucuses and SD- let the people decide! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #36

I agree, but I suspect youll be surprised. TDale313 Nov 2017 #5

Trump is a populist. Hamlette Nov 2017 #22

Trump won. What is your point? That we shouldnt use winning strategies? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #38

Donald Trump is no populist. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #50

Of course he is. There are reactionary RW populists emulatorloo Nov 2017 #54

Of course not. A populist is opposite of a libertarian. Trump is a right conservative. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #67

His campaign was all populist rhetoric. It is revisionist history to say it wasn't emulatorloo Nov 2017 #70

Can and was are two different things, and they are measured across ALL ideologies. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #86

Populism is not bad. TDale313 Nov 2017 #58

Populism is almost always bad and populist leaders almost always demagogues. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #203

One word...McGovern. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #51

There was no populist that even entered the Democratic primary at the beginning. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #64

Which is exactly why we need them GulfCoast66 Nov 2017 #75

Caucuses romana Nov 2017 #6

Perhaps it does not have to be an either/or choice? RiverStone Nov 2017 #16

Right romana Nov 2017 #21

Its a worthwhile debate until (if) we reach consensus! RiverStone Nov 2017 #28

I support getting rid of both!!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #40

Get rid of the caucus. nt LexVegas Nov 2017 #7

And SD together! Support a democratic Democratic Party! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #42

No, I don't agree at all. The people who put in hours and marybourg Nov 2017 #8

They have no more right to more of a voice than a working mother who doesnt have time to do that! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #52

I think you missed a "not." And whether you support a party or not, you still have voting right. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #78

And some people dont have the ability to put the time in-but they are just as deserving LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #84

Please. We live in a time when one misplaced tweet can ruin a good person. I don't want mob rule. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #93

No you dont want democracy! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #112

I'm OK with a federation. nt fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #225

Your post expresses my feelings also. If the Republicans justhanginon Nov 2017 #69

Not to mention romana Nov 2017 #77

That sounds dangerously close whopis01 Nov 2017 #186

Nope, its dangeoursly close to wanting competency is what it is dangerously close to. stevenleser Nov 2017 #204

I guess some people are more competent voters than others whopis01 Nov 2017 #229

Yes, get rid of Super Delegates. democrank Nov 2017 #9

Get rid of caucuses. N/t FSogol Nov 2017 #11

Absolutely, it is not democratic. n/t demmiblue Nov 2017 #12

Nope! Get rid of caucuses! Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #14

Get rid of both at the same time!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #53

Caucuses are very undemocratic Gothmog Nov 2017 #100

Definitely. H2O Man Nov 2017 #15

Get rid of SDs and caucuses. BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #17

Let's hope there is a vigorous debate on this at the leadership level! RiverStone Nov 2017 #19

HELL FUCK NO !!! No one wants a DNC version of Red Don uponit7771 Nov 2017 #20

You mean someone who can win and put more liberal justices on SCotUS? Yes please!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #56

Win at any cost?! hell no !? uponit7771 Nov 2017 #57

The cost of being more Democratic and true to the values we claim to espouse? Hell yes! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #62

Why? They've never been determinative of the result frazzled Nov 2017 #25

Cause being pro-active and avoiding problems is a good thing. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #61

First, get rid of the... Mike Nelson Nov 2017 #26

Agreed. The caucus system is rigged. Get rid of it! democratisphere Nov 2017 #31

Get rid of super delegates and the electoral college. democratisphere Nov 2017 #27

+1 rec to that RiverStone Nov 2017 #32

Bearing in mind that we cant get rid of the Electoral College brooklynite Nov 2017 #35

But we can neutralize it. shanny Nov 2017 #45

It is time to bring our voting systems and procedures out of the stone age. democratisphere Nov 2017 #46

The National Popular Vote interstate compact can get rid of the Electoral College Gothmog Nov 2017 #129

No greeny2323 Nov 2017 #29

There are still not going to be others who wont get to serve! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #72

Not yet considering the disaster that befell us from the Republithug side. fleabiscuit Nov 2017 #33

Get rid of both at the same time! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #74

What indication do you have that SD votes are bought? brooklynite Nov 2017 #34

I have an issue when a candidate can have 400+ SD before a single vote is cast!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #76

I don't. It means there is something compelling about that candidate. Plus, they can change their stevenleser Nov 2017 #206

No. 1,000 times NO. Hamlette Nov 2017 #39

uh, wot? shanny Nov 2017 #48

Trump is an example of why we need to get rid of SD LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #92

You have that 180 degrees wrong. SDs are there to stop a populist demagogue like Trump getting stevenleser Nov 2017 #208

Trump is the reason why we have them and the RNC wished it had them too in 2016 themaguffin Nov 2017 #231

I am ok with superdelegates comradebillyboy Nov 2017 #41

Of course not grantcart Nov 2017 #43

thank you.... dhill926 Nov 2017 #55

Thank you !! uponit7771 Nov 2017 #59

Well said! Nt procon Nov 2017 #65

I wish I could rec this post /nt romana Nov 2017 #81

Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #111

Your statement that it is not democratic has absolutely no basis in fact which is easily disproved. grantcart Nov 2017 #149

It is very much based in fact. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #165

You have a very two dimensional understanding of a three dimensional organism grantcart Nov 2017 #195

Your analysis is totally wrong Gothmog Nov 2017 #214

Needs to be an OP WyLoochka Nov 2017 #193

Thanks, this isn't about SDs of course, just another attempt to re-litigate the primary grantcart Nov 2017 #196

I agree with your analysis Gothmog Nov 2017 #213

Great post Gothmog Nov 2017 #216

Well so much for everyone will agree on.. dembotoz Nov 2017 #44

Ha! Well, I'm open to my assumption on agreeing being wrong. RiverStone Nov 2017 #107

I do not agree. They serve a purpose. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #47

Yup: brave defenders of the status quo shanny Nov 2017 #49

I would love some DNC status quo right now, even better reason to keep them uponit7771 Nov 2017 #60

yes, it is working so well for us shanny Nov 2017 #73

Nah it's more complicated than that. But of course you reduce all DU'ers to "Status Quo" if they emulatorloo Nov 2017 #63

didn't say one fucking word about all DU'ers shanny Nov 2017 #71

You call me 'status quo' because I disagree with you... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #80

Gaslighters 'R Us emulatorloo Nov 2017 #91

reading comprehension is key shanny Nov 2017 #209

Yeah...I see one reply was deleted too. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #218

so what? I thought better of landing on someone over a mistake shanny Nov 2017 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author shanny Nov 2017 #199

didn't call you anything. called the superdelegates something.period. shanny Nov 2017 #201

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Nov 2017 #85

Super delegates. Sorry if that wasn't obvious. shanny Nov 2017 #197

didn't reply to dembotoz... shanny Nov 2017 #200

My mistake, correcting emulatorloo Nov 2017 #219

OK. A basis for discussion. shanny Nov 2017 #222

If it is not broken don't fix it...they serve a purpose. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #79

Yeah to pervert democracy and make us look like hypocrites. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #114

I think you'll find that most DUers don't necessarily agree with you. MineralMan Nov 2017 #68

Thank you MineralMan, I was tiring of this discussion and you restored my faith in reason. c-rational Nov 2017 #95

I became tired of it with the misspelling of 'delegates." MineralMan Nov 2017 #96

Maybe if the GOP had SDs 45 would not have been the GOP nominee AJT Nov 2017 #83

So it would have prevented them from having a winning ticket. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #115

Yes, and as I said to GOPers many times leading up to it, losing an election isnt the worst outcome. stevenleser Nov 2017 #210

Eliminate open primaries and caucuses and I'd support that. NT Adrahil Nov 2017 #87

I would support that too. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #116

No. You think we'd have better off if, like the R's, we had no way to put the brakes on an insane pnwmom Nov 2017 #88

So it would have prevented them from having a winning ticket that they strongly approve of? LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #117

The superdelegates could have saved the country. And Obama made some great appointments pnwmom Nov 2017 #123

Yes Obama made great appointments to the SCotUS as did Bill LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #130

I am advocating for a system with a backstop against insane candidates pnwmom Nov 2017 #132

Appealing to people is called Democracy. It is the foundational principle of the Party LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #135

We're stuck with the electoral college, so we might as well benefit from the one feature pnwmom Nov 2017 #136

Trump isnt a democrat or liberal, the SD had no effect on him LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #140

The GOP has no superdelegates. That's why they had no effect on him. n/t pnwmom Nov 2017 #156

And they won... nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #158

Our whole country lost. They didn't think he could beat Hillary, and they would have pnwmom Nov 2017 #159

They did have a chance. And they did vote...for Trump. nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #166

No, there were no superdelegates to vote against DT. But Republican office-holders pnwmom Nov 2017 #167

Against the wishes of the Republican electorate. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #171

Yes. Because they were certain other candidates would have been stronger against Hillary. pnwmom Nov 2017 #173

If the repugs had SDs trump would have never caught Bush by the time he got into the race. brush Nov 2017 #185

Yes, it would, and that is a good thing. See my #210 above. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #211

Let's see if I understand this louis c Nov 2017 #90

I believe that's the idea. Who cares about Democrats MineralMan Nov 2017 #98

how about this compromise louis c Nov 2017 #102

That's not my call, really. MineralMan Nov 2017 #105

That is what this proposal is going for which is why the CBC opposes it Gothmog Nov 2017 #101

The only think we ever agree on is an in-house fight and another and another............ IADEMO2004 Nov 2017 #94

Congressional Black Caucus: Keep superdelegate system in place Gothmog Nov 2017 #97

A popular vote system would address their concerns AND be more democratic. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #120

I stand with the CBC Gothmog Nov 2017 #124

Abdicating all thought to others is your prerogative. I like to think for myself tyvm! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #131

So you do not value a significant percentage of the party's base? Gothmog Nov 2017 #134

I VALUE ALL THE BASE, not just parts of it LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #137

And so you want to deny mrmbers of the CBC their status as important part of the party Gothmog Nov 2017 #153

I am not denying them any status. I am elevating everyone to the same status. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #157

So are you willing to rid of undemocratic caucuses? Gothmog Nov 2017 #170

Absolutely! LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #172

We can get rid of caucuses but super delegates need to stay Gothmog Nov 2017 #191

You use strawman arguments frequently in your comments under this OP. Its very discrediting stevenleser Nov 2017 #212

Agreed Gothmog Nov 2017 #215

Nobody Supported the DNC Chair Candidate that wanted to get rid of JI7 Nov 2017 #103

Agree, and the Electoral College n/t TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #104

If the GOP had SDs, they may not have ended up with DJT. nt Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #106

You mean the nominee that won the election and is popular with their base? LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #121

A candidate/pResident who is destroying the party. nt Lisa0825 Nov 2017 #163

This is nonsense. murielm99 Nov 2017 #108

Its not nonsense, and all those things AND SD need to go. Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #122

I have already explained my position on this, murielm99 Nov 2017 #125

So you arent able to defend your naive and divisive position that weakens the party. That is fine. LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #133

Goodbye. murielm99 Nov 2017 #138

Saiyonara! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #141

I stand with the Congressional Black Caucus Gothmog Nov 2017 #126

Are you trying to say that my two Senators, murielm99 Nov 2017 #110

Oh, good Lord! This again? NurseJackie Nov 2017 #118

Get rid of the Trump administration. Iggo Nov 2017 #119

Nope. Get rid of caucuses LisaM Nov 2017 #127

And super delegates too! We are the Democratic Party lets act like it! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #142

After trump fiasco? No. Hell no ecstatic Nov 2017 #139

Trump won. You are saying you dont want us to win? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #143

Not if the nominee is an ignorant, racist, criminal POS. Nt ecstatic Nov 2017 #144

So youd give the election to an even more ignorant, racist, criminal PoS republican? Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #146

Um, no. The superdelegates would have prevented that person from becoming the nominee ecstatic Nov 2017 #148

So again, you are fine with LOSING and getting a worse republican LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #154

I think you need to take a step back and familiarize ecstatic Nov 2017 #160

I am aware of the logic behind Super delegates LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #169

And for the record, I'm against SDs and caucuses too! RiverStone Nov 2017 #174

you forgot the ".. with the help of the Russians ... " part no? tia uponit7771 Nov 2017 #183

Nah, the supers should have given Donna B the heave-ho ucrdem Nov 2017 #145

Convention delegates have no role in appointing DNC Chairs brooklynite Nov 2017 #179

Do you know what SDs are and how they are chosen? Hekate Nov 2017 #147

I agree with you louis c Nov 2017 #177

Yes. CentralMass Nov 2017 #152

That's a kind of protection I don't want to give up. It will keep folks like Trump away from the coolsandy Nov 2017 #162

I remember fondly advocating for this joet67 Nov 2017 #164

Maybe get rid Meowmee Nov 2017 #168

Do you have a link? lapucelle Nov 2017 #176

I'm ambivalent. To date superdelegates have never been a deciding factor in a Dem primary. tandem5 Nov 2017 #178

I've been trying to think of how I would design the system if we could start over. TomSlick Nov 2017 #180

Get rid of caucasus and the EC. They are both undemocratic lunamagica Nov 2017 #182

You either are in favor of super delegates or democracy whopis01 Nov 2017 #184

I wonder what was in Tad Devine's head lapucelle Nov 2017 #188

Yes, get rid of Super Delagates. aikoaiko Nov 2017 #189

I agree with that Bettie Nov 2017 #190

No. Trump is the best reason for keeping some measure of control by people with brains. Persondem Nov 2017 #192

I agree with you. I think the Democratic Party should be ... dawg Nov 2017 #198

No, SDs don't bother me. I am less a fan of caucuses. nt stevenleser Nov 2017 #202

Agreed ... completely. KPN Nov 2017 #207

gt rid of caucuses first delisen Nov 2017 #217

I'm gonna go with the Congressional Black Caucus: NO VermontKevin Nov 2017 #220

Yes definitely. Owl Nov 2017 #224

I was a delegate to the national convention and I have read DNC rules on voting Gothmog Nov 2017 #232