General Discussion

Orrex

(67,108 posts)

48. Out of curiosity, is it clear that he was shot by the "good guy?"

Tue Nov 7, 2017, 01:22 PM

Nov 2017

The article isn't clear on this point, stating only that "Kelley, 26, was also shot in the leg and torso by an armed citizen."

Of course, that doesn't specify which armed citizen. It seems at least possible that someone in the church returned fire.

Obviously, this can easily be determined through ballistic analysis, and we should await confirmation because it's actually quite important.

If he was shot by someone in the church, then that shooter apparently didn't do anything to stop the rampage, nor did the "good guy" in that case.

Then again, even if he was shot by the "good guy," it's still not clear that the "good guy" did anything to stop the rampage.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

154 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Running Out Of Ammo Stopped The Carnage. Not A Good Guy With A Gun. [View all] TheMastersNemesis Nov 2017 OP

That simple malaise Nov 2017 #1

Yes, that needs to be our mantra HopeAgain Nov 2017 #29

lol MurderMittenLiberal Nov 2017 #103

This article seems to suggest ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #2

That was my first thought Yupster Nov 2017 #3

Saved one. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #9

He Had More Guns in His Car Stallion Nov 2017 #4

450 rounds is a lot of ammo to carry. Neighbor Probably Did Not Stop This Guy. TheMastersNemesis Nov 2017 #6

Late? He beat the police dumbcat Nov 2017 #17

Both missed the main event FreeState Nov 2017 #46

The person who could have been #29 but wasn't... Baconator Nov 2017 #127

he gets a set of steak knives maxsolomon Nov 2017 #69

But the shooter dropped his rifle--then fled to his car. .... riversedge Nov 2017 #33

Call me when a 'good guy with gun' actually stops a mass murder louis-t Nov 2017 #80

Catch -22 sarisataka Nov 2017 #89

I know... LeftInTX Nov 2017 #114

A little empathy helps here. There'd be no reason for that neighbor to assume Bucky Nov 2017 #133

Yep! Didn't stop the murders in the church. LiberalFighter Nov 2017 #146

LOL linuxman Nov 2017 #149

Police said that his car was loaded with other guns and ammo. Blue_true Nov 2017 #59

I see 2 possibilities sammythecat Nov 2017 #95

Yeah, I see your point. Blue_true Nov 2017 #100

If they're saying he saved lives in the church sammythecat Nov 2017 #107

The WaPo ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #117

I think that he killed exboyfil Nov 2017 #61

Apparently he had guns in his truck that he didn't carry into the church. George II Nov 2017 #68

Other weapons and ammo in his truck. N/r Hangingon Nov 2017 #115

Shot himself with a handgun. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2017 #124

I think you are sarisataka Nov 2017 #5

Even Though The Neighbor Responded Was Helpful, It Did Not Really Stop It. TheMastersNemesis Nov 2017 #8

Neighbor is lucky that he's not dead or in a hospital... LakeVermilion Nov 2017 #13

Or that a bystander is not dead or in the hospital. deurbano Nov 2017 #28

Yep - good thing he brought enough gun to the gunfight. nt jmg257 Nov 2017 #64

I was referring to the claim sarisataka Nov 2017 #30

He died in a car that was loaded with guns and ammo. Blue_true Nov 2017 #65

Postulating informal theory is not assumption, whether they say that on TV or not. LanternWaste Nov 2017 #31

Making a positive statement sarisataka Nov 2017 #36

Fact of the matter, the guy with the shotgun would have been outmatched by an AR15 ffr Nov 2017 #7

What guy with the shotgun? dumbcat Nov 2017 #19

Early reports I heard were that the gunman was persued by someone with a shotgun ffr Nov 2017 #125

He had a rifle, not a shotgun. His rounds were probably MORE powerful, if it was a deer rifle. 7962 Nov 2017 #140

There ya go - THAT is why people buy ARs. jmg257 Nov 2017 #22

I Could Never Live In A Deranged Community Like That. TheMastersNemesis Nov 2017 #11

That community is not deranged Alea Nov 2017 #47

You already do. maxsolomon Nov 2017 #71

Touche. That Community Is A Community Of Idiots. TheMastersNemesis Nov 2017 #77

Wow, judge much? cwydro Nov 2017 #139

Pistol in the glove compartment? forgotmylogin Nov 2017 #12

That would be speculative and illegal (I know....) as his concealed carry permit was denied by TX Not Ruth Nov 2017 #15

I know I'm speculating... forgotmylogin Nov 2017 #20

I think you need to read that again dumbcat Nov 2017 #21

He had 4 guns True Blue American Nov 2017 #52

"Look for the weird. Look for twitches. Look for nervousness." struggle4progress Nov 2017 #14

Did the good guy shoot him during the spree or while he was fleeing? Orrex Nov 2017 #23

Probably will find out in a few weeks after an autopsy Not Ruth Nov 2017 #24

Until then, we should reject claims that he stopped the shooter Orrex Nov 2017 #35

See the link to the autopsy below. B2G Nov 2017 #39

He pursued the shooter away from the scene, no? Orrex Nov 2017 #43

To stop him. B2G Nov 2017 #45

So they left voluntarily the crime scene? Orrex Nov 2017 #57

No, vigilante justice would have been B2G Nov 2017 #62

They elected to pursue him away from the scene. That's vigilante justice. Orrex Nov 2017 #76

That's not what Vigilante means. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #97

Maybe to stop him from doing whatever else sammythecat Nov 2017 #101

Should the neighbor sarisataka Nov 2017 #40

With what?? nt B2G Nov 2017 #41

The above poster claimed sarisataka Nov 2017 #50

OK, should be interesting. nt B2G Nov 2017 #58

That depends, no? Orrex Nov 2017 #42

You have determined sarisataka Nov 2017 #56

I don't believe that I claimed that it was unnecessary. Orrex Nov 2017 #67

Vigilante justice B2G Nov 2017 #73

Thanks for confirming! Orrex Nov 2017 #78

How did pursuing him either B2G Nov 2017 #79

Of course, he didn't simply pursue him. Orrex Nov 2017 #98

He didn't force him off the road. B2G Nov 2017 #102

To stop him. Which they did. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #86

Some break in continuity. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #82

Honestly nothing (see edit) sarisataka Nov 2017 #83

I would refer you to Texas Penal Code Chapter Nine dumbcat Nov 2017 #90

Then Texas law is fucked up Orrex Nov 2017 #109

It's allowed in Washington. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #112

The autopsy has already been done. B2G Nov 2017 #38

Out of curiosity, is it clear that he was shot by the "good guy?" Orrex Nov 2017 #48

I have seen no accounts of anyone firing back from inside the church. B2G Nov 2017 #49

I made no positive assertion about it... Orrex Nov 2017 #54

No, because he left alive. nt B2G Nov 2017 #60

What does that mean? And how do you not see a difference? Orrex Nov 2017 #88

Not trying to be an ass but that sounds like a strawman. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #94

No, because the shooter was still functional. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #91

Exactly so. Paladin Nov 2017 #16

I need to find these reports you are citing... jmg257 Nov 2017 #18

so my question is bluestarone Nov 2017 #26

Thats incredible isnt it? Talk about a hero! jmg257 Nov 2017 #34

I don't know a damned thing about all of this, but... hamsterjill Nov 2017 #25

As someone who has some experience with ballistics through various media, Morris64 Nov 2017 #143

Let's leave aside leftynyc Nov 2017 #27

Can we at least agree assault weapons should be banned? HopeAgain Nov 2017 #32

Absolutely leftynyc Nov 2017 #74

You're wrong. The VA Tech shooter used two ordinary handguns. aikoaiko Nov 2017 #37

Ban semi-auto hand guns too or, at a minimum, make them not easily concealable. Hoyt Nov 2017 #53

That ain't going to happen. Plus, concealability has little to do with massacres. aikoaiko Nov 2017 #70

The president is wrong mainstreetonce Nov 2017 #44

Yep. Kelley had already thrown his AR15 away and was essentially unarmed when he was shot. Hoyt Nov 2017 #51

So there was no gunfight, no exchange of fire, outside the church? Saw that reported numerous times. jmg257 Nov 2017 #72

Yes,he had a handgun mainstreetonce Nov 2017 #84

Thanks!!! nt jmg257 Nov 2017 #85

Good accounting by the neighbor mainstreetonce Nov 2017 #92

No,it APPEARS he was unarmed at that point and the cowboy still couldn't stop him. Hoyt Nov 2017 #96

But then there is this... jmg257 Nov 2017 #99

You can go out to the range and practice what you believe happened. I'll trust the accounts Hoyt Nov 2017 #106

You can trust anything you like. Also note the rifle was actually supposedly wrested from his hands jmg257 Nov 2017 #110

So far as I have heard, Kelley had not dropped his rifle. He seems to have lost it when hit. Hangingon Nov 2017 #120

Thanks - one article said it was wrested from his hands. He did have a handgun though. jmg257 Nov 2017 #122

Didnt hear that. thanks Hangingon Nov 2017 #136

Dude had already left the church and was trying to escape IronLionZion Nov 2017 #55

Your facts arent supported ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #63

"The gunman fled and ultimately shot himself in the head, officials said." IronLionZion Nov 2017 #66

This article makes it clear he saved lives ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #75

And this entire article is about a 95mph car chase IronLionZion Nov 2017 #81

My Dad carried an M1 Garand in Korea... 8 round clip. That's it... served him very well. Still In Wisconsin Nov 2017 #87

Insane is right. 3catwoman3 Nov 2017 #113

"No need to be able to spray bullets around like a hose sprays water." Still In Wisconsin Nov 2017 #126

"Furthermore, there's no need to do that in a military situation either" EX500rider Nov 2017 #128

Yeah that's true. I should have emphasized the word "randomly." Still In Wisconsin Nov 2017 #129

Oh ffs... MurderMittenLiberal Nov 2017 #93

Did the "armed citizen" need an AR-15 with 30 round clip to stop the carnage. What does the NRA FreeStateDemocrat Nov 2017 #134

No MurderMittenLiberal Nov 2017 #152

K&R Gothmog Nov 2017 #104

According to Paul Ryan the people in that church were praying for him to run out of ammo, and not .. Snake Plissken Nov 2017 #105

High capacity magazines and bump stocks must be totally eliminated. lark Nov 2017 #108

How would a mandatory gun lock law ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #130

No, gun locks are not about wholesale slaughter, but the family version. lark Nov 2017 #151

That was what I read too Bettie Nov 2017 #111

K & R SunSeeker Nov 2017 #116

Whether shooter could have killed more is besides point; he killed 26 - already unacceptable Justice Nov 2017 #118

He used a military weapon designed to kill as many human beings as possible workinclasszero Nov 2017 #119

He had no problem purchasing the gun ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #131

Magazines are expensive and cumbersome Calista241 Nov 2017 #121

AR mags only cost $10-$20 each NickB79 Nov 2017 #137

While your heart is in the right place, Morris64 Nov 2017 #147

Anyone who thinks they need firearms to protect themselves from the government vkkv Nov 2017 #123

But there's no way the guy who shot the shooter could have known that Bucky Nov 2017 #132

If he ran out of ammo - how did he... lame54 Nov 2017 #135

Dont get in the way of their attempts to rationalize away the guy being a hero Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #138

Sorry, but you're wrong. He exchanged fire and was shot twice. 7962 Nov 2017 #141

those multi bullet things should ONLY be available in war or ranges. next the NRA w/ let us each pansypoo53219 Nov 2017 #142

Posts like this are why folks have a hard time taking proponents of gun control seriously. Morris64 Nov 2017 #148

So, a bad guy without a working gun wasn't able to shoot people. Hm. Beartracks Nov 2017 #144

I suppose they may be able to determine if he had another stop/s and more targets planned. brewens Nov 2017 #145

"saving the day" after 26 people were murdered Skittles Nov 2017 #150

Is your objection that the shooter had stopped shooting, or the other guy had a gun? brooklynite Nov 2017 #153

Yet another attempt by pro-gunners to turn a mass murder into a 2nd Amendment triumph. Paladin Nov 2017 #154