General Discussion

Atman

(31,464 posts)

25. I don't agree, which I think I made clear in my op.

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:40 AM

Jul 2012

If you are mentally ill and you are not getting help, if "the system" has cut you off because you have a pre-existing condition, or your local clinic has shut down, or if you are simply messed up and don't realize you're messed up, you will still carry out the violent act in your fantasies. No gun available from Cabella's or the local gun shop? It isn't tough to make a cannon out of a lead pipe. The terrorists in the Middle East have proven that. Having a gun didn't make this event happen. Having ACCESS to a gun didn't make this event happen. The snapped wiring in the gunman's head made this happen, and it was going to happen regardless of the weaponry.

However, if he had access to proper mental heath services -- his mother clearly knew he was severely troubled -- than perhaps he's be in a different place right now. Seeking help, not seeking a lawyer.

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I know this won't be popular, but; it is the MENTAL ILLNESS. [View all] Atman Jul 2012 OP

I completely agree. The same goes for those wanting to abridge the 1st amendment RadiationTherapy Jul 2012 #1

A lot of people like to conflate mental illness and "Republicanism" or "Tea Party thinking" Brickbat Jul 2012 #2

I'm not trying to connect "Tea Party' with mental illness. Not at all. Atman Jul 2012 #5

No, I know. I was agreeing with you. Brickbat Jul 2012 #6

I got that...just clarifying. Some didn't seem to get my post. Atman Jul 2012 #13

Agreed there Posteritatis Jul 2012 #88

I wish the unrec feature was still available frazzled Jul 2012 #3

Not every murderer has a mental illness. Some are just evil and self-centered. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #4

Anyone who is sufficiently evil and self-centered to commit murder has at least a personality... slackmaster Jul 2012 #22

Is there any human alive that is perfect? All of us have something that might sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #30

Personality disorders have very specific criteria for official diagnosis slackmaster Jul 2012 #34

You're correct JonLP24 Jul 2012 #40

I believe there is already enough information about this incident to say that it was well planned slackmaster Jul 2012 #44

I was under the impression JonLP24 Jul 2012 #64

But a lot of simply self-centered assholes commit murder and other violence. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #43

In my opinion anyone who murders people in cold blood is mentally ill slackmaster Jul 2012 #45

Then they should all be just put in a mental health facility? And use sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #51

Mentally ill does not mean the same thing as mentally incompetent slackmaster Jul 2012 #70

What about war zones? It may not be cold blood, but close. People are targets, it's all strategy. freshwest Jul 2012 #90

Apples to oranges slackmaster Jul 2012 #92

Yet the cold blooded murderer in our midst may believe the same thing, and is called sick? freshwest Jul 2012 #96

His belief in absence of directives shows his instability. skip fox Jul 2012 #99

There's a big gap between "imperfect" and "mass murderer." nt TheWraith Jul 2012 #82

Can you name a single mass shooter who did not have mental illness? skip fox Jul 2012 #81

I said nothing about 'mass shooter', I said not every murderer was mentally ill. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #98

Can I be the first to blame violent video games and movies? n/t Baclava Jul 2012 #7

You're aren't the first JonLP24 Jul 2012 #23

that was sarcasm Baclava Jul 2012 #28

I blame the sarcasm... Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2012 #53

gunman was a wanna be Nazi... nebenaube Jul 2012 #8

Not so, he was actually a cylon from the galaxy Platonia. Tejas Jul 2012 #83

Disagree. The guy loved those GUNS and they did 30x or more damage than knives could flamingdem Jul 2012 #9

By your logic prison should be the safest place in the world. But it isn't, now is it? Edweird Jul 2012 #26

Compare the countries that are saturated with guns like the USA with those that aren't Bandit Jul 2012 #41

Like Mexico which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world? Edweird Jul 2012 #47

Please, you can't compare an inmate knifing with killing 12 innocents and wounding 50! nt flamingdem Jul 2012 #55

You can't conflate guns with murder. If it was the guns and not the people, Edweird Jul 2012 #66

Last year a guy in China killed 7 people in a span of minutes with a knife. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #75

The problem with your 'reasoning' is that prisons concentrates the mis-fits, criminials, mental RC Jul 2012 #68

There's no problem with my reasoning. Either it's 'the guns' or it's 'the people'. Edweird Jul 2012 #102

Not the people with guns? Guns are a proven part of the problem. RC Jul 2012 #104

Sure, it's harder without a gun - which PROVES my point. Edweird Jul 2012 #106

So explain why, as gun ownership in America has skyrocketed hack89 Jul 2012 #48

Which brings us back to our CULTURE. Atman Jul 2012 #50

+1 flamingdem Jul 2012 #56

Agreed. And it will never change. Bertha Venation Jul 2012 #101

Since those countries may have wildly different laws 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #94

He killed 12 people 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #93

I am 100% in agreement. pnwest Jul 2012 #10

I'll withold judgement until I find out if... ehrnst Jul 2012 #11

I don't argue that there is a problem with our system of regulation. Atman Jul 2012 #15

Any murder has a mental illness RegieRocker Jul 2012 #12

A lot of help is needed get the red out Jul 2012 #14

+100 Atman Jul 2012 #17

no arguement here. w8liftinglady Jul 2012 #16

It may or may not be popular JonLP24 Jul 2012 #18

It's both. onehandle Jul 2012 #19

I don't agree, which I think I made clear in my op. Atman Jul 2012 #25

Or more likely JonLP24 Jul 2012 #27

Your post reminded me of an incident in Tampa .... spin Jul 2012 #20

We need to reopen the looney bins, and put a few million people in them. reformist2 Jul 2012 #21

Ah, yes Sam1 Jul 2012 #38

the likelihood that the shooter would have sought and gotten mental health treatment is slim. unblock Jul 2012 #24

I don't think we're in much disagreement. Atman Jul 2012 #33

my point is that you're wrong about the level of violent fantasy. unblock Jul 2012 #61

Mental & Behavioral Health PARITY in the PPACA - N-O-W! patrice Jul 2012 #29

Society recognizes a general public interest is served in licensing the coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #31

There aren't licensing requirements for firearms? Atman Jul 2012 #37

Just to be clear, I am in full agreement with your larger point in your OP and its title. And coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #58

Then good gun background checks would have shown that and maybe he wouldn't have had guns LynneSin Jul 2012 #32

What is a "good" gun background check? Atman Jul 2012 #39

What is a good driver's ed test? What is a good SAT test? LynneSin Jul 2012 #49

I think I pointed out that that is the case... Atman Jul 2012 #57

Well then I'm arguing with the wrong person - my bad LynneSin Jul 2012 #60

States are not reporting mental health cases to the Criminal Background Check System hack89 Jul 2012 #42

There are some pretty serious privacy restrictions. Atman Jul 2012 #52

Doesn't sound like he had any previous diagnoses of mental illness 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #95

Growing up poor, the medical care everyone did without: dental, optical, MENTAL HEALTH. ACA didn't Romulox Jul 2012 #35

Gun obsession is a mental illness. LonePirate Jul 2012 #36

What other political stances that you dislike are in fact medical problems? (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #80

Maybe not in our lifetime, but I am sure that one day they will tie every single criminal behavior Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #46

As long as you're bringing health care into this Loudly Jul 2012 #54

Very, very interesting point. Atman Jul 2012 #59

It's both. As a mental health professional I have some perspective. nolabear Jul 2012 #62

You have to suppose that other cultures have the same incidence of mental illness that we do. mnhtnbb Jul 2012 #67

Not only do they want it not treated, they feed the illness n2doc Jul 2012 #63

I really don't understand this argument. Marr Jul 2012 #65

People like having something to direct their backlash urges at Posteritatis Jul 2012 #85

Bravo n/t GarroHorus Jul 2012 #69

So, the mentally ill should not be allowed access to guns. grahamhgreen Jul 2012 #71

yeah, let's make Psychoanalysis of eveyone mandatory Progressive dog Jul 2012 #72

"it is the mental illness, which the GOP doesn't want treated. No health care for the poor." Bertha Venation Jul 2012 #73

SINGLE PAYER with MENTAL HEALTH COVERAGE. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #74

Yes and It's The GUNS TOO otohara Jul 2012 #76

Thank you wryter2000 Jul 2012 #84

yes most sane people believe both sould be dealt with Doctor_J Jul 2012 #103

Don't completely agree but thank you. Tejas Jul 2012 #77

I've always had problems with mental health lilithsrevenge12 Jul 2012 #78

One in Five Americans are mentally ill. riverbendviewgal Jul 2012 #79

Good point about mental illness, failure to treat it and our dysfunctional society generally. BlueMTexpat Jul 2012 #86

It is the Mental Illness + guns cbdo2007 Jul 2012 #87

Unrec...it's both...a mentally unstable person who had access to guns... joeybee12 Jul 2012 #89

IMO, you can slow down the process, but there is very little one can do to stop a no_hypocrisy Jul 2012 #91

What gets me is how he was dressed when he entered the theater. Atman Jul 2012 #105

Lots of "fucking psychos" are actually neuroscience/mental health "professionals" bobthedrummer Jul 2012 #97

Mental Illness types bongbong Jul 2012 #100