General Discussion

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)

79. You're correct

Wed Nov 8, 2017, 07:03 AM

Nov 2017

The NRA has done everything it can to turn this into a "good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun" story. It isn't.

It is a story of courage. No one disputes that. For those enthralled in the technical aspects of armed combat, it is a story of situational awareness and technical skill. Few who care one way or the other on the topic would dispute that either.

BUT this rank speculation that he would have killed another innocent person had this guy not stepped in, made against the weight of the known facts, is 100% NRA propaganda.

The weight of the evidence is that, having carried out his twisted retribution, Kelley had only one further victim in mind, he successfully completed that killing as he sat in the front seat of his vehicle, and that not one innocent life was saved by the "good guy with a gun."

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Man who opened fire on Texas church shooter hailed as 'good Samaritan' [View all] pintobean Nov 2017 OP

He ran toward the danger, not away from it and put 2 bullets into the murdering POS Lurks Often Nov 2017 #1

And some on this board are calling exboyfil Nov 2017 #2

It won't play well at all outside of very blue districts. Lurks Often Nov 2017 #3

I'm from a very blue district leftynyc Nov 2017 #27

Im thinking damn few also. cwydro Nov 2017 #12

I agree with you. How anyone can demonize this man is beyond comprehension. It's why we lose. grossproffit Nov 2017 #28

I would be running to the victims to administer CPR. Ilsa Nov 2017 #69

What if he was going to turn himself in? loyalsister Nov 2017 #4

He shot himself in the head. After shooting at the interloper. Not sure 'might turn himself in' jmg257 Nov 2017 #5

What if he was going to track down his MIL and shoot her since she wasn't at church snooper2 Nov 2017 #6

Exactly my point loyalsister Nov 2017 #11

You need to prove...something? That this civilian did NOT do something good by confronting jmg257 Nov 2017 #16

This is being used to "prove" that everyone should have a gun loyalsister Nov 2017 #19

Ah - gotcha. Clearly not a good idea. nt jmg257 Nov 2017 #20

I have no idea where you're getting that. pintobean Nov 2017 #21

The NRA has been dreaming of the day that they would find their hero loyalsister Nov 2017 #25

And THAT is the point. Thank you. Orrex Nov 2017 #85

Any more it is going to take both, a good man with a gun and fewer guns and more laws are needed bec Jim Beard Nov 2017 #94

"What if he was going to turn himself in?" EX500rider Nov 2017 #9

He was an active shooter. pintobean Nov 2017 #10

Thank you. Nt cwydro Nov 2017 #13

I was pointing out how dumb speculation is loyalsister Nov 2017 #14

be careful historian Nov 2017 #23

You really think Willeford was hoping to become a hero??? He just doesn't seem like that jmg257 Nov 2017 #24

I don't think most gun owners think that way loyalsister Nov 2017 #31

Why? Why would they just be busting to use it?? Strange you think so many are just aching to kill. jmg257 Nov 2017 #33

Why own anything you don't want to use? loyalsister Nov 2017 #36

You mean like a fire extinguisher? A bee-sting kit? A seat belt? A life preserver? jmg257 Nov 2017 #39

Which of those items is specifically designed to kill people? loyalsister Nov 2017 #41

So you change the question!!? "Why own anything you don't want to use?" jmg257 Nov 2017 #42

Guns for other things is the most callous justification out there loyalsister Nov 2017 #44

Yeesh...YOU were the one who asked the questions. And now your making points that had jmg257 Nov 2017 #47

exactly historian Nov 2017 #75

Curious point. How do you think they would have handled the importance of the people/militia then? jmg257 Nov 2017 #91

I own a plunger. pintobean Nov 2017 #35

Do you carry it everywhere you go? loyalsister Nov 2017 #37

Nope. just my phone, wallet and keys. pintobean Nov 2017 #40

If you need specific tools.... loyalsister Nov 2017 #43

Just admit that the idea makes you feel icky... Baconator Nov 2017 #61

yes it's gross and creepy loyalsister Nov 2017 #62

Doubling down on the whole 'making things up' bit...? Baconator Nov 2017 #78

I carry a flashlight everywhere I go Not Ruth Nov 2017 #54

It specifically designed to use when there isn't enough light, right? loyalsister Nov 2017 #56

I would argue that it is a trade off between weight and safety Not Ruth Nov 2017 #57

That *is* the purpose, and was the first lesson I was taught about guns. moriah Nov 2017 #68

I certainly keep my plunger next to the toilet. ;) moriah Nov 2017 #64

I can only speak for myself sarisataka Nov 2017 #45

I carry daily and hope I never have to even draw my gun Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #46

But you can and are willing to use it for the purpose it was designed for? loyalsister Nov 2017 #67

For defense of myself or others Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #71

And when it's necessary to shoot, it's still a BFD legally for the person. moriah Nov 2017 #73

Thats an almost universal thing with people who have had to live through it Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #80

Mine are personal protection instruments designed to save life. ileus Nov 2017 #63

Yeah I hear that a lot loyalsister Nov 2017 #66

He had to take time to get his rifle out of his gunsafe in his home. Hardly Jim Beard Nov 2017 #81

You're correct GaryCnf Nov 2017 #79

How to you judge the weight of the evidence to be such Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #82

Did he kill the neighbor? GaryCnf Nov 2017 #84

So if he missed he didnt mean it? Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #86

Perfect GaryCnf Nov 2017 #87

Your changing your stance a bit now Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #88

I'm not sure I can disagree with that last statement. GaryCnf Nov 2017 #93

Thanks for the detail and clarity loyalsister Nov 2017 #92

Active shooters don't do that. Bucky Nov 2017 #18

I understand you don't like the narrative you feel they're pushing... moriah Nov 2017 #48

Run with it and see where it has brought us loyalsister Nov 2017 #53

As I said, I get why you don't like how they're pushing the story. moriah Nov 2017 #58

You cant change what happened just because you dont like the Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #83

That's just embarrassing... Baconator Nov 2017 #59

Yes, it is. pintobean Nov 2017 #90

Under current laws... NCTraveler Nov 2017 #7

Have these people actually read the parable of the good Samaritan? gratuitous Nov 2017 #8

Can death ever be mercy? moriah Nov 2017 #50

Short answer gratuitous Nov 2017 #65

I'm confused. moriah Nov 2017 #70

IF we had certain regulations in place, and the ones we had were followed, Raine1967 Nov 2017 #15

Yeah that's the narrative from this incident. Crunchy Frog Nov 2017 #17

has it ever occurred to anyone historian Nov 2017 #22

I am sure that has occurred to plenty of people. You would have to square jmg257 Nov 2017 #30

not wishing to be rude historian Nov 2017 #74

Taking no offense. These aren't phony statistics. They're FBI/DOJ crime stats and well-known. jmg257 Nov 2017 #89

It doesn't always have to be political. dpd3672 Nov 2017 #26

He should've shot that asshole mass murderer BEFORE he stepped into the church. hunter Nov 2017 #29

It's possible both to consider the two guys who intervened as heroes and to simultaneously onenote Nov 2017 #32

He was trained. Willeford was a former NRA certified instructor. FarCenter Nov 2017 #49

That's what I was thinking. LisaM Nov 2017 #51

He was aiming to hit above or below the body armor that the guy was wearing. FarCenter Nov 2017 #52

Have you ever fired a gun? Under stress? At a moving target? Lee-Lee Nov 2017 #55

I have not, and that's why I don't want to glorify or condemn. LisaM Nov 2017 #60

Are you saying there were no armed individuals in that church? I don't think Kelley was Hoyt Nov 2017 #77

Yes. hunter Nov 2017 #95

Chemo works well on cancers. LanternWaste Nov 2017 #34

IMO People that go on murder sprees expect not to make it. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #38

I guess he is book_worm Nov 2017 #72

Glad he intervened, but it just proves guns seldom make things better. Hoyt Nov 2017 #76