General Discussion

Loki Liesmith

(4,602 posts)

127. All accusers in any situation should be doubted

Fri Nov 17, 2017, 10:09 AM

Nov 2017

Regardless of the crime. Doubt does not mean to reject or to forego investigation.

Doubt is a great thing. It forces us to adopt strong standards of proof. It does not mean you don’t believe the person believes what they are telling you. It means accepting the possibility you aren’t getting the complete story.

I doubt Franken’s accuser and I doubt Moore’s accusers. Although the sheer number of the latter has lessened my doubt.

I also doubt Franken’s story and Moore’s stories. I’m fairly sure they don’t present the whole truth either.

Doubt is not the opposite of belief. It’s what makes belief possible.

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To The Franken Must Resign Crowd [View all] ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 OP

Franken may have pushed past bounds on kiss, but nothing like a 30 yo Moore assaulting a 14 yo. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #1

SHE SEZ trof Nov 2017 #5

I didn't say that. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #9

Oh so do we doubt all accusers then? EllieBC Nov 2017 #16

What makes the whole thing reek to me is that Roger Stone & some creep from Infowars catbyte Nov 2017 #21

Franken said do an investigation. So do one. I'm not calling for him to resign. EllieBC Nov 2017 #24

I disagree. I don't see anybody saying they should ignore the allegations just because catbyte Nov 2017 #32

This doesn't pass the smell test..... ollie10 Nov 2017 #52

It's not the same level obviously as Moore or even Louis CK. But it's still EllieBC Nov 2017 #63

A very good point. calimary Nov 2017 #88

plus azureblue Nov 2017 #74

Hey, he was a comedian then. Jim Beard Nov 2017 #99

I don't doubt her at all....however, aren't we able to understand degrees of bad behavior??? adigal Nov 2017 #65

Are you aware that cretin Roger Stone tweeted last night that something was coming to Franken today? brush Nov 2017 #69

Wow, missed that. That's very interesting. Since Franken is smiling at the camera, R B Garr Nov 2017 #91

no - we look at the effin photo azureblue Nov 2017 #71

Of course we doubt accusers jl_theprofessor Nov 2017 #75

And that's why women struggle to come forward or seek legal remedy EllieBC Nov 2017 #81

There's a difference jl_theprofessor Nov 2017 #98

the details are somewhat different. If she told the story to people before, I'd like to hear yurbud Nov 2017 #93

Being a woman does not automatically convey truthfulness WyLoochka Nov 2017 #111

All accusers in any situation should be doubted Loki Liesmith Nov 2017 #127

Are you saying you dont accept the word of Moores accusers? whopis01 Nov 2017 #113

Sexual assault falls on a spectrum of behaviors. B2G Nov 2017 #35

You know what else is ignorant? BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #61

1) I'm not belittling. 2) Do not accuse me of being ignorant when Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #72

Franken objectified and did abuse power. Eyeball_Kid Nov 2017 #70

show where Al did as you accuse azureblue Nov 2017 #73

I am waiting with you! Jim Beard Nov 2017 #101

The photo is clearly objectification whopis01 Nov 2017 #114

If Tweed's version of the story is true, yes, somewhat disgusting. RVN VET71 Nov 2017 #105

I'm basically with you, but a bit more open to possibility of either one telling the truth, or both. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #110

Whether it is the same as Moore is not the point. We know it is not the same. No Squinch Nov 2017 #2

Its Exactly The Point ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #7

"Starting to look like." Hopefully it turns out to be that. We don't know yet if it is. Before Squinch Nov 2017 #12

Sen. Franken is setting the bar high for himself csziggy Nov 2017 #19

Exactly. He will hopefully become a loud voice saying, "Obviously I get how you Squinch Nov 2017 #29

Well said. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2017 #58

correct; i think some people are being willfully ignorant about this. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2017 #139

The only thing in their mouths are Republican talking points. n/t bathroommonkey76 Nov 2017 #3

I don't know about RW "hit job," but... pat_k Nov 2017 #4

You're Not Sure About A RW Hit Job? ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #10

Timing... pat_k Nov 2017 #15

And his accuser has accepted his apology, n/t Stonepounder Nov 2017 #25

A point that too few reports are making. pat_k Nov 2017 #37

She did?? I hadn't heard that. That changes everything, in my mind. To me that Squinch Nov 2017 #38

why do you think Moore's accusers spoke up now? Or Weinstein? Or Louis CK? Takket Nov 2017 #17

Hear, Hear! pat_k Nov 2017 #23

Agree with the Prof. Baitball Blogger Nov 2017 #6

And it sure as fuck pales in comparison to what this dotard has done. Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #36

You can say that again....................... Jim Beard Nov 2017 #96

sure just google search her name and nude photos and switch to images and there ya go. Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #104

And if his voters accept that, he should definitely stay. SaschaHM Nov 2017 #8

Wait? ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #11

And Moore is on the verge of losing a seat in AL because of it. SaschaHM Nov 2017 #14

His accuser publicly accepted his apology. To me, that's the end of it. Squinch Nov 2017 #40

And I hope that sways his voters if he decides to run for reelection. I don't want to see his seat SaschaHM Nov 2017 #45

My gut feeling is that this will make him a very vocal proponent for women's issues. Squinch Nov 2017 #49

Minnesotans know Al. They're never going to unseat him. Ever. Not even with a Koch operative funding ancianita Nov 2017 #50

Al Franken is not up for reelection next year dragonlady Nov 2017 #106

If there are other examples, especially since he became a Senator. kentuck Nov 2017 #13

No one has been expelled from the Senate since 1862 Cattledog Nov 2017 #42

Resign? Are you kidding me? It was a joke, people. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #18

Since when is sexual assault a joke? fallout87 Nov 2017 #78

How do you know he touched her? Cattledog Nov 2017 #82

The photo is snapshot of a moment in time. fallout87 Nov 2017 #83

She said she was asleep. She is assuming she was touched from the pic. Don't make stuff up. Cattledog Nov 2017 #87

Mr. Fallout87 has 196 posts. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #125

Just alert on people spreading RW lies. .99center Nov 2017 #140

There's not a category for this. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #143

Mr. Fallout87 with 196 posts thinks Franken committed sexual assault. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #124

Very interesting yes. Cattledog Nov 2017 #126

well, then i guess it's all good, since it was "a joke." NOT. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2017 #138

Agree completely! smirkymonkey Nov 2017 #20

No way in hell ellie Nov 2017 #22

At least we know who is working with the Russian bots now. 4now Nov 2017 #26

In no way does this warrant his resignation. I'm seeing that shit on twitter from resistance Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #27

The Republican Moore should be prosecuted if the things I'm hearing are true. rockfordfile Nov 2017 #28

Sure Leann Tweeden is so upset SJMULE Nov 2017 #30

Whether she is a sex symbol or a "nearly naked model" has no place in this discussion. Squinch Nov 2017 #34

I have to agree with Squinch. She did a Playboy portfolio and had a boob job to market herself Jim Beard Nov 2017 #103

Exactly, they know he is a contender for 2020 Cattledog Nov 2017 #44

Exactly Owl Nov 2017 #66

Ditto Ellie LakeArenal Nov 2017 #31

Resign crowd: GOP, Russia, anti-Democrat left. Hortensis Nov 2017 #33

Right BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #53

Leann Tweeden SJMULE Nov 2017 #62

You must be confused BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #109

Franken knows about his comedy background... Big_K Nov 2017 #136

For sure. All of us are progressive, but the difference between Hortensis Nov 2017 #64

to all of you SJMULE Nov 2017 #39

I'm not calling for him to resign. Tavarious Jackson Nov 2017 #41

Many many troll bots. Dream Girl Nov 2017 #43

+1000 C Moon Nov 2017 #47

Out in force today... HipChick Nov 2017 #48

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2017 #89

That's the only reason I clicked this thread KelleyKramer Nov 2017 #108

He apologized and is fully cooperative mvd Nov 2017 #46

He was not a candidate and was not running for public office. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2017 #55

So can censure only be used for actions while in office? mvd Nov 2017 #56

This may set a precedent for Moore, should he win. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2017 #57

I believe this is called whataboutism Terry_M Nov 2017 #51

So the first place she goes MFM008 Nov 2017 #54

Indeed. PatrickforO Nov 2017 #59

Senator Franken' s only mistake was he didn't kacekwl Nov 2017 #60

+1 Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #67

Very well said...thank you! iluvtennis Nov 2017 #68

"Russian Bots all over Al Franken story." Comrades, well done. bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #76

Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #77

Bullshit! dhol82 Nov 2017 #102

We've already been accused of hypocrisy. For decades. Usually by bigger ones. JHB Nov 2017 #118

Ha! You have got to be kidding right? FailureToCommunicate Nov 2017 #119

Hmmm! BlueMTexpat Nov 2017 #129

And what party would that be? scipan Nov 2017 #135

Put EVERYONE under oath... Raster Nov 2017 #79

K & R SunSeeker Nov 2017 #80

The photographer said this was a staged photo and she was not asleep. kimbutgar Nov 2017 #84

This should be its own OP, the photographer tweeted this but I can't find it. uponit7771 Nov 2017 #90

that is pretty persuasive to me. yurbud Nov 2017 #94

Where did you see that the photographer commented on the photo? sl8 Nov 2017 #97

Be warned - there is a fake FB meme floating around, purported to be from the photographer Adenoid_Hynkel Nov 2017 #112

Hannity is involved. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #85

Being busy has sure helped put this in perspective. Having ONLY the picture to R B Garr Nov 2017 #86

There's no comparison, true peggysue2 Nov 2017 #92

So you're saying that Moore's behavior is just BARELY over the line" FBaggins Nov 2017 #117

Can you Imagine if Franken was (R) ??? unhip white guy Nov 2017 #95

Big fat hairy difference between a comedy gig gone raunchy. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2017 #100

Sen Franken should publically volunteer to resign Sugarcoated Nov 2017 #107

The woman claims Franken forcefully kissed her without her consent oberliner Nov 2017 #115

For A Comedy Bit ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #121

No, not for a comedy bit oberliner Nov 2017 #122

No Surprise There ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #128

How exactly does that make any difference? whopis01 Nov 2017 #142

Although I am very disappointed in Franken's behavior democrank Nov 2017 #116

Well said oberliner Nov 2017 #123

I am heaven05 Nov 2017 #120

You're begging the question of whether ONLY the most severe abuse/assault... Orsino Nov 2017 #130

justicedemocrats petition. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2017 #131

What about Trump? DownriverDem Nov 2017 #132

Absolutely agree! classof56 Nov 2017 #134

Agree Nitram Nov 2017 #133

Sounds like tiptonic Nov 2017 #137

Grossly Disappointed! ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #141