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pnwmom

(110,252 posts)

78. Words are hearsay. But descriptions of a victim's emotional state aren't.

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 09:58 PM

Nov 2017

There are some exceptions to the hearsay rule. One is called an "outcry witness."

In United States law, an outcry witness is the person who first hears an allegation of abuse made by a child or another victim of abuse or sexual crime. The witness is legally obligated to report the abuse, and may be called upon during the trial proceedings.

Outcry witness - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcry_witness

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Did Al Franken do anything illegal? [View all] Control-Z Nov 2017 OP

The police don't really get involved in these affairs. Corvo Bianco Nov 2017 #1

Well, some do. Control-Z Nov 2017 #13

No and if you are suggesting the bullshit set up job about Franken...that he did something illegal I Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #65

Of course they do, if laws are broken. yardwork Nov 2017 #55

What laws might those be? I have never heard of anyone going to jail for a kiss which by the way Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #66

Oh I agree. I see no evidence of laws being broken in this case. yardwork Nov 2017 #80

I was assaulted twice in my life...once as a teen. I managed to escape ...one of Moore's Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #81

I am sorry that those people did those things to you. yardwork Nov 2017 #85

Thank you. One of the healing things I was told in therapy was to realize that it wasn't my fault. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #97

Likely not. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #2

They are not going to go down without a fight. LisaL Nov 2017 #4

That's why we need to seize every advantage and not give them any. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #6

Unless everyone elected is as pure as driven snow, how do you do that, exactly? LisaL Nov 2017 #8

The Deplorables are looking for any incident, no matter how small to muddy the waters. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #10

And when they can't find an incident they make one up. FuzzyRabbit Nov 2017 #42

Yep...the continual demonization of Democrats is disheartening. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #67

Assault With A Deadly Tongue SoCalMusicLover Nov 2017 #3

He would have been sentenced to film STUART SAVES HIS FAMILY. Whoops! n/m bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #5

No. Perhaps incivil but not illegal. Shrike47 Nov 2017 #7

It would depend on the jurisdiction but probably not. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #9

If it rose to sexual harrassment, could face civil liability. pat_k Nov 2017 #11

Would they have to return to Afghanistan for the trial? IADEMO2004 Nov 2017 #14

I'm not an attorney, but I think an actual victim (i.e., not Tweeden)... pat_k Nov 2017 #32

It all reeks and I don't want to see Franken hobbled in any way. IADEMO2004 Nov 2017 #59

Me too. pat_k Nov 2017 #62

I agree with your every word. Control-Z Nov 2017 #91

Depends on your point of view PJMcK Nov 2017 #12

It doesn't matter loyalsister Nov 2017 #15

That was not my point. Control-Z Nov 2017 #23

Did Moore? Really not the point. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #16

Yes, if the woman's account is accurate. former9thward Nov 2017 #17

That's a tort, not a crime. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #18

It would be a tort for civil purposes. former9thward Nov 2017 #22

No, it is not criminal assault. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #29

It is a crime in Illinois and Arizona where I practice. former9thward Nov 2017 #38

Look for yourself: The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #44

So I can go up to someone in MN former9thward Nov 2017 #52

I have a friend who was raped in Illinois...I was born at Great Lakes parents in the Navy... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #68

Al Franken is being tried in the public square. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #43

So she says. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #47

Different burden of proof- only more likely than not. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #49

I don't buy that...she is a Hannity plant and I have seen pics of her at the time...she was not Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #69

And that's what's going on. GoneOffShore Nov 2017 #76

Thank you Velveteen for stating fact. Cattledog Nov 2017 #24

Not a fact. former9thward Nov 2017 #40

There is no evidence that her account is accurate, other than her own say-so. pnwmom Nov 2017 #21

There is no trial here is there? former9thward Nov 2017 #25

If her story is taken at face value, she gave consent unblock Nov 2017 #31

Again - no, it would not be a crime. It could be a tort. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #33

What facts? There are no facts, just a couple assertions. And no prosecutor pnwmom Nov 2017 #36

Sounds like the Moore defense. former9thward Nov 2017 #41

It's nothing like the Moore defense. All of Moore's accusers had witnesses pnwmom Nov 2017 #48

Please don't invent witnesses. former9thward Nov 2017 #54

That's true. Confiding in somebody, especially some time later, doesn't make that somebody a witness LisaL Nov 2017 #58

I didn't. Not all witnesses are eye-witnesses. In fact, that almost never happens pnwmom Nov 2017 #64

I don't believe it would be admissible as evidence, because wouldn't it be considered hearsay? LisaL Nov 2017 #77

Words are hearsay. But descriptions of a victim's emotional state aren't. pnwmom Nov 2017 #78

Big difference to try to rape a child...then to kiss an actress during a skit...but attacking Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #70

The question was if he would be charged Bradical79 Nov 2017 #83

This is from Dr. Zhivago LeftInTX Nov 2017 #95

Franken did not break the law. trueblue2007 Nov 2017 #19

No prosecutor would ever have taken this case. pnwmom Nov 2017 #20

No. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2017 #26

He didnt touch her in the photo and denies the kiss. eom blimablam Nov 2017 #27

If she'd reported it at the time, the USO might have taken some action under its own rules. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28

Exactly, she consented to a kiss that is a fact. I guess she expected a peck on the cheek Cattledog Nov 2017 #34

We just don't know what happened between the two of them. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #45

Doubtful...the service people there at the time back Franken up...she is a liar and a righty plant. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #71

AFAIK, nobody's identified any "service people there at the time" yet, Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #74

there have been several posts about it...and one or two posted on Facebook...you want to believe Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #75

I asked for a link. You apparently don't have any. Who's believing bullshit now? Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #79

There are lots of links and stories on DU and other places...you have to want to not know...and I Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #82

There are lots of links to anonymous claims on Twitter. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #84

Roy Moore molested a child, assaulted a teenager The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #30

No. Control-Z Nov 2017 #37

This whole discussion is stupid. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #46

I know a few people have misinterpreted my questions Control-Z Nov 2017 #86

It isn't sexual anything...it is an idea cooked up by the rightwing smear machine to Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #72

No. ananda Nov 2017 #35

tweeden says " I told a few of the others on the tour what Franken had done and they knew how I felt blimablam Nov 2017 #39

What I don't understand is why this incident did not come to light The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #51

No they don't exist ...and during the investigation...the Senate is sure to call her as a witness Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #73

btw Tweeden said she told other people right away. Has anybody come forward yet? blimablam Nov 2017 #50

Honestly blue cat Nov 2017 #53

Please read past #86. eom Control-Z Nov 2017 #87

No. pamdb Nov 2017 #56

I feel the same. Control-Z Nov 2017 #88

No... Mike Nelson Nov 2017 #57

Thank you for your reply. Control-Z Nov 2017 #89

Based on my state's law, only if his hands contacted the vest. So no. moriah Nov 2017 #60

No. Snackshack Nov 2017 #61

That is a ridiculous question an the answer is no. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #63

Please read past #86. eom Control-Z Nov 2017 #90

I hoped you thought my state's law post was interesting. moriah Nov 2017 #92

Thank you for this post. Control-Z Nov 2017 #93

Our laws are completely backwards in many ways. moriah Nov 2017 #94

No Gothmog Nov 2017 #96