So, here is a picture of Leanne Tweeden grabbing the guitar players ass & dry humping

[Denzil_DC]

125. As in your previous posts, you completely miss my point.

I don't know why that is - partisanship, lack of exposure to women who've actually been abused by men in your offline life, whatever.

You can make this a big male ego point-scoring exercise, or you can actually address the issue of consent in an offstage setting, as it appears Franken has had the savvy to do (strategically in the face of the allegations, or genuinely, it doesn't matter at this point).

I set this out in clear terms in the post of mine you were replying to, and you're still, for some reason, refusing to address it now.

Somebody can in the hurly-burly of performance act in a certain way, as expected and as the context (a USO performance in this case) requires. (You can object to the antics of all or any onstage on principle if that it's distasteful to you, but that's a different argument.)

It doesn't imply that that person as a result has no right to exercise choice in how anyone interacts with her offstage and the boundaries she chooses to set. I gave the examples of a stripper or a lapdancer - the logical conclusion of your line of argument would be that they have no right to object to any racy or unwelcome behavior they might be subject to in rehearsal or offstage. Do you really want to stand by that?

We have to argue in principle here, as only two people in the world so far have come forward as knowing what really happened during rehearsal offstage, and those two have agreed to differ on their memories, with an apology proffered and accepted for any line that may have been overstepped. All very civilized as far as it goes and pretty much all one could hope for in the circumstances.

How can anybody be expected to predict whatever unexpected behavior may occur that may overstep those boundaries, which is what you're insisting they should do? You're setting an unrealistic standard, and it smacks of special pleading. It's what a Republican would do faced with similar allegations, and it's not the path Franken's chosen, to his credit.

Why would he choose to react like that? Maybe he's genuinely surprised and regretful, maybe he's just playing with the cards dealt, usually no-win without witnesses unless somebody wants to get into the weeds of character assassination with the extended arguments and unpredictable further allegations and revelations that might entail (Franken's never pretended to be squeaky clean; who knows what other skits that don't look great in the modern light of day and the current atmosphere are lurking out there, for him and Tweeden?), and reacting in the most savvy way he can.

Maybe he has an eye on an agenda beyond selfish concern about his own position and career.

Since you sometimes have a platform larger than many of us to promote your views, you may want to consider giving some air time to this aspect which I've posted elsewhere but have chosen not to make yet another Franken OP among so many:

Here's a sad aspect to the story:

Al Franken wrote a bill to help rape survivors like me. He can’t lead on it now.

In November 2014, I was raped.

I’m certainly not the only one something this awful has happened to, but afterward, I felt as though I was. I was a 19-year-old college student. My life changed overnight. I faced an incredibly long fight to bring my attacker to justice: Daniel Drill-Mellum was wealthy, well-connected, and willing to throw me and my reputation under the bus. The #MeToo culture I’ve seen develop publicly over the last month wasn’t around to help me then. I was nearly harassed off the University of Minnesota campus for reporting. I was turned away by the Minneapolis Police Department despite the mountain of evidence in my case.

Over the next two years, I learned how to hold my frustration in, because I had an end goal in mind. I knew that my attacker belonged in prison, and I was determined to get the justice system on my side. I made mental notes about everything that was going wrong. I tried to have patience that someday I could make a different world. When my rapist was sentenced in August 2016 to six years in prison, I finally had my chance.

I sought help from Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.). He took up my cause without hesitation, and he worked with his aides to draft legislation to pay for training to help police departments treat assault survivors with more concern for what we’ve been through. But now that allegations have come out that Franken himself assaulted a woman years ago, I want another lawmaker to sponsor the bill we worked so hard on. This work deserves to be led by those without a history of sexual harassment or assault.

The news this week was especially disappointing for me because of how effective an advocate Franken has been for my cause. I felt my heart sink when I saw the news, but I was prepared to support the woman involved. I remember what it was like to be shamed and not believed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/18/al-franken-wrote-a-bill-to-help-rape-survivors-like-me-he-cant-lead-on-it-now/

If anybody wants to click through, they'll see the sort of work Franken's been involved in, and how sensitively he and his staff have handled the process of helping this woman frame the bill. She now wants to find a female congressperson to sponsor it instead.

I hope it's an overreaction to the early forms of this story, and she may revise her decision. Or perhaps it would be better if she can find a female senator to sponsor it, and Franken can offer whatever support is necessary, behind the scenes or from the floor. The problem with his involvement is Republican whataboutery. You'd hope a bill like this could find bipartisan agreement, but I doubt it.

It may shed some light on why Franken reacted like he did. The larger picture than his own career is the legislation he wants to pass and the changes he wants to come about - exactly as set out in his long statement. That's integrity.

I don't think any number of videos or pics of Tweeden cavorting onstage are likely to make Abby Honold feel differently, certainly not if Franken were ever to have a hand in relying on them as some sort of "defense" - especially in view of her own experience of the attempts to "throw me and my reputation under the bus". Or maybe she'll realize that this is more or less what's happened to Franken as her ally and change her mind.

What probably won't help change her mind is targeting somebody who comes forward with an allegation for her past behavior, however raunchy, given what she says above. Or maybe she'll join some here in resenting Tweeden for making false allegations, but that could be a slippery slope and she may not be able or willing to go there.

These are the stakes. This whole operation hasn't just targeted Franken, it's targeted the current wave of revulsion at revelations about how (especially powerful) men sometimes conduct themselves.

That's why I think Franken's reacted as he has, and why he's right to do so.

I might have made the above an OP, but I think we've had quite enough OPs about all this recently.

If you still have access to a media platform beyond that which most of the rest of us humble DUers are privileged enough to enjoy, you could maybe choose to spread this aspect of the story, which is sad, but reflects well on Franken and opens up the wider issues of a possible Republican agenda beyond concern for Franken's seat etc.

Or you can stick to your guns and insist on continuing to try to tar this woman as deserving of whatever she claims was dished out offstage because she acted a role onstage.

Your choice, among a number of others.