General Discussion

sarisataka

(22,364 posts)

3. That is the basic choices.

Reply to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:15 PM

Jul 2012

but there are so many versions based off of those three. The AR-15 is, in the loosest sense, just an offspring of the Civil War era Henry repeating rifle, a Glock from the Single Action Army.

The tools change over the years. The operator is what is constant. The west had Wes Hardin. We have our murders that I will not give the respect of posting their names.

Changing the operator is what will have a lasting effect. We need to find out why people do these things and see what can be done to correct them.
IMO removing the mystique of guns will help more than removing the guns.

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Simple - and serious - question - why is anything other than a handgun, shotgun or rifle needed? [View all] NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 OP

Suppose you have to overthrow the government? MrSlayer Jul 2012 #1

The original purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to defend the govt, not overthrow it. baldguy Jul 2012 #24

This is why I love DU. DocMac Jul 2012 #28

Yes but try telling them that. MrSlayer Jul 2012 #68

Excellent point! thucythucy Jul 2012 #99

Do your history. Vattel Jul 2012 #113

"The Antifederalist Mysteries" ellisonz Jul 2012 #149

Hey, clueless: if you want to defend freedom & liberty baldguy Jul 2012 #151

Was there really a need for name calling? Chemisse Jul 2012 #162

A RWer quotes a RW fascist, trying to foster a RW extremist myth in favor of a RW policy baldguy Jul 2012 #165

Thats the supidest thing I.ve ever heard permatex Jul 2012 #156

Maybe because your head is full of RW bullshit. baldguy Jul 2012 #159

RW bullshit? permatex Jul 2012 #170

The Founders feared a standing army much more than the remote possibility of domestic tyranny. baldguy Jul 2012 #174

So again show me a majority of constitutional scholars that agrees with your position permatex Jul 2012 #175

Hilarious bongbong Jul 2012 #176

It's because they need authority figures to tell them what to think. baldguy Jul 2012 #178

Stock Talking Points for gun-relgionists bongbong Jul 2012 #179

That's exactly what they tell you, to which I respond.... Scuba Jul 2012 #78

i assert amfortas the hippie Jul 2012 #117

Sarcasm noted and appreciated. Welcome to DU. Scuba Jul 2012 #118

I remember someone saying.... rbixby Jul 2012 #152

LOL.... Iggy Jul 2012 #84

*sigh* (How soon we forget) You mean, like this? Zorra Jul 2012 #91

The examples you cite illustrate the absurdity of the thucythucy Jul 2012 #109

Those appear to be disingenuous half truths expressed for the sake of defending an untenable Zorra Jul 2012 #154

Let's see, you start off by accusing me thucythucy Jul 2012 #181

HA! It is absurd but many RW gun nuts sincerely believe that. DCBob Jul 2012 #97

Why? Profits for the arms industry, of course. (nt) scarletwoman Jul 2012 #2

That is a symptom of the disease. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #29

That is the basic choices. sarisataka Jul 2012 #3

What other weapons are you speaking of besides these? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #4

anything multiple shot, automatic, rapid fire - anything other than really basic. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #6

Automatic weapons are intensely regulated 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #13

Umm are you sure? Iggy Jul 2012 #85

I'm sure. His AR-15 wasn't a full auto weapon. Period. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #89

You are sure because ... ??? panzerfaust Jul 2012 #94

I'm sure because if his AR-15 had been fully automatic it would have been huge news. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #100

My solution? Same as two-time Republican Candidate for President Barry Goldwater's panzerfaust Jul 2012 #108

Great post! thucythucy Jul 2012 #182

And if his AR15 were automatic HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #135

Quite so. The vast majority of anti-gun posters on this topic obviously Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #138

Yes. Same hysteria that inspired witch-burning 400 years ago. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #142

You didn't read/comprehend Iggy Jul 2012 #95

Sure I did. You don't want and "regular" citizen to be able to own semiautomatic weapons. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #98

Yes, sure 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #116

So you're speaking of banning anything the can fire more than a single shot without reloading? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #72

"There are none more righteous than the ignorant" HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #140

Very good question. Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #5

I am serious - really feel I need to be better educated - all part of getting to root causes. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #7

It seems to me rrneck Jul 2012 #30

Those roots are deep. DocMac Jul 2012 #33

Thanks - and I do realize that. I know far more good people than assholes..... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #34

Sleep well. Have no fear. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #43

Thanks - I did sleep well - I actually never have any fear! NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #77

"All the factors understood" Iggy Jul 2012 #86

To knock over a bank, or armored car... immoderate Jul 2012 #8

Nothing more is legitimately needed. Fuck the apologists who defend more. morningfog Jul 2012 #9

Right, could you point out the people on here 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #12

What other weapons are there 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #10

Should the caffeine content in iced tea be regulated? cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #11

Is that a snark sandwich? nt DocMac Jul 2012 #44

All of it. I need *all* of the caffeine. Posteritatis Jul 2012 #52

Uh, and? jberryhill Jul 2012 #14

Hey Man,If the Gubmint comes for my guns, If Obama keeps trying to take my guns rustydog Jul 2012 #15

How? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #16

who needa an AK-47 assault rifle? My 30-30 has a limited round capacity rustydog Jul 2012 #18

it is touchy, and my attempt at this post (not going too badly) is simply to learn. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #21

Only 17% of gun owners hunt michreject Jul 2012 #70

"who needa an AK-47 assault rifle" . . . not the kid in CO 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #166

It would not have done a thing Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #146

Hobbyists and collectors like to have different types and varieties. uppityperson Jul 2012 #17

I guess - but if they get used (which they seem to), it goes beyond hobbyists.... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #19

Some people like gardening. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #41

That'd apply to pistols as much as automatic rifles Posteritatis Jul 2012 #50

No. And not even those without an extensive mental health examination. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #20

Why is anything besides a VW bug, a minivan and a truck needed? OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2012 #22

You can't harm 70 people with a car. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #23

Sure you can. n/t ohheckyeah Jul 2012 #25

You don't get out much, do you? (NSFW picture) Tejas Jul 2012 #62

Actually, there was an incident in Santa Monica, CA coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #67

I thought of that immediately obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #80

strictly speaking, you are stating logic - but.... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #26

Bows and arrows were designed to kill. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #45

yes, that's fine - and I choose to not participate in any of those either. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #75

Thats my point. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #128

show me where I am trying to fit everyone into my box. I am listening and reading and NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #129

Well, you said you didn't understand fascination with guns. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #136

Yes, I did say that - which is why I started the thread, so I could learn. I am not judging, NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #148

Well, I didnt mean to imply that. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #153

agreed. n/t NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #155

Well, I respect the fact that you are really trying to understand the issue OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2012 #51

I am not passing judgement - and I don't need to go to a shooting range because NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #73

I commend you for your intellectual curiosity HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #157

thanks, I try - don't always succeed but try. NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #158

My weapon of choice is the hand grenade. geckosfeet Jul 2012 #27

Don't milk it! nt DocMac Jul 2012 #32

An AR15 is a rifle. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #31

I get the impression that you are DocMac Jul 2012 #36

I dont think it gets any slower than to tell them an AR15 is a rifle, HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #39

Ok. Have the two of you come to a conclussion? DocMac Jul 2012 #40

I think people have the right to own and use firearms for sport, pleasure, and defense if necessary. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #48

And I think people should leave their guns at DocMac Jul 2012 #54

I defend myself by staying out of situations where I need to defend myself. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #65

That's bullshit. DocMac Jul 2012 #66

Dude, you're unhinged. Whats your problem? HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #69

I am not a dude. DocMac Jul 2012 #71

What does the poster being a woman have to do with anything? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #81

It wouldn't be a stretch for DocMac Jul 2012 #82

You know different women than I do obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #120

The response was not rude or mean. Just the facts. WTF is your issue? Calm down. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #92

Maybe you just didn't get the answer DocMac Jul 2012 #103

You are the one trying to create an "issue" where there is none. Quit.... Logical Jul 2012 #105

I like searching on how to "convert" AR-15's. Pholus Jul 2012 #83

Yes, and there are lots of kits to modify Mustangs to 800 hp. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #150

So the highest rate of fire is about oneupmanship? Pholus Jul 2012 #167

My neighbors like to one-up me on their lawns HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #168

You made me laugh. Pholus Jul 2012 #169

A Springfield is a hundred year old design HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #171

Well at some point your Mustang isn't street legal anymore either. Pholus Jul 2012 #172

Mustang was an example, I dont own one. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #173

No, the AR-15 is an ASSAULT rifle (but some are carbines) panzerfaust Jul 2012 #90

Jesus Christ, another post discussing automatic weapons where none existed in the shooting. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #93

You missed the target. panzerfaust Jul 2012 #101

How do you define "assault style"? Serious question..... Logical Jul 2012 #104

Drop-in auto sears are regulated as machineguns, and are not cheap. slackmaster Jul 2012 #96

When machineguns are outlawed ... panzerfaust Jul 2012 #110

Repeating a LIE doesn't make it true slackmaster Jul 2012 #115

Permits for automatic weapons are very difficult to get. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #134

Because they are cool. (not snark, i promiss) chknltl Jul 2012 #35

good food for thought (and many points for creativity and effort!). thanks... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #37

The 'cool' factor is one i've yet to see discussed. nt. chknltl Jul 2012 #38

There is an element of that. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #42

Not a trained asassin, just crazed kid. DocMac Jul 2012 #47

BTW, Columbine is the State flower. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #58

No disagreement. Wasn't even talking about him. That said... chknltl Jul 2012 #59

And it's very much one, and every bit as valid a reason as others, too Posteritatis Jul 2012 #53

Some say all you need is a .38 snubbie, 10/22 rifle and a wheelbarrow. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #46

Some people are right. DocMac Jul 2012 #49

Because there is an outmoded belief that Loudly Jul 2012 #55

So no citizens of any country should ever go to war against their government? RegieRocker Jul 2012 #125

The Bush family and the Neocons. Checks and balances. Fire Walk With Me Jul 2012 #56

You think that people armed with assault rifles can take on the US ARMY???? Zoeisright Jul 2012 #60

Who suggested that? Tejas Jul 2012 #63

Die on feet > live on knees Fire Walk With Me Jul 2012 #64

"assault rifle" is a media term GarroHorus Jul 2012 #121

So good to see a sane response here. RegieRocker Jul 2012 #127

I feel you! DocMac Jul 2012 #61

Mayor Bloomberg's bodyguards carry machineguns, ask him. Tejas Jul 2012 #57

ITA. nt raccoon Jul 2012 #74

This has been a worthwhile/interesting exchange - thanks to all for taking it seriously, NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #76

Assault weapons are not needed and should be against the law. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #79

I hope it's okay to piggyback here with my own question re: military veterans & guns OneGrassRoot Jul 2012 #87

I am a former NRA member - and still enjoy shooting - BUT ... panzerfaust Jul 2012 #88

looking for former NRA members backstory Nov 2012 #183

The NRA says we should have AR-15s because the gov't won't let the citizens have nuclear weapons. leveymg Jul 2012 #102

A AR-15 RegieRocker Jul 2012 #106

Unlike an AR-15, a bolt-action rifle can't be easily adapted for full auto fire. leveymg Jul 2012 #107

Bolt action rifles are a rare breed these days. nt GarroHorus Jul 2012 #122

This person wants a ban RegieRocker Jul 2012 #123

Yeah, right, nearly half of all weapons in circulation. GarroHorus Jul 2012 #130

I was referring to leveymg RegieRocker Jul 2012 #131

Aren't semiautos way more than half at this point? Posteritatis Jul 2012 #132

Pretty much. n/t GarroHorus Jul 2012 #139

I cant cite the figures, but I think you are correct. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #160

No semi automatic weapon RegieRocker Jul 2012 #124

All (or nearly all) semi-auto pistols and rifles can be converted into assault rifles leveymg Jul 2012 #137

Plenty RegieRocker Jul 2012 #141

Sounds like the sort of "will destroy the Party" argument that sustained Jim Crow. leveymg Jul 2012 #143

I am already aware RegieRocker Jul 2012 #144

I am always wary of those who confuse their opinions with "the truth" leveymg Jul 2012 #145

You have no argument RegieRocker Jul 2012 #147

Fully automatic rifles are NOT illegal for civilians to own ... spin Jul 2012 #180

I've always thought a good compromise would be banning handguns. raouldukelives Jul 2012 #111

Compare with Canada RC Jul 2012 #133

I have no problem with heavily regulated handgun ownership. Marrah_G Jul 2012 #112

Did the second amendment specify the type of gun? Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2012 #114

You do realize James Holmes went into the theater with a handgun, shotgun, and rifle... GarroHorus Jul 2012 #119

You need a 100 round magazine if you want to shoot at bees. n/t Ian David Jul 2012 #126

After losing 30 + acres to feral hogs I bought an AR-15 Redford Jul 2012 #161

... which is just a rifle REP Jul 2012 #164

While it would not have prevented this particular tragedy, I agree with you 100%. Chemisse Jul 2012 #163

well if this has already been said sorry for the duplication cindyperry2010 Jul 2012 #177