General Discussion

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)

97. No, actually, it's not about material wealth.

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:41 AM

Jul 2012

See, the word "happiness" has changed a bit in the last 200 odd years. These days it means something akin to "pleased" - as in "this makes me happy"

When the constitution was written, however, it meant "a state of well-being." Property could be part of that, but it was not the end-all be-all of it. Health, contentment, leisure, art and education, community... these are all part of "happiness" at the time the phrase was written.

The phrase, "they are a happy people" doesn't mean that the people were always singing and dancing, it meant htye had a stable, healthy life that they enjoyed and were content with.

Also, it is plainly written that it is a right. As a matter of fact, everything is a right, unless it is specifically written to NOT be a right. Welcome to America, it's quite different from Singapore.

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Your second amendment rights are getting in the way of our rights. [View all] jillan Jul 2012 OP

K&R TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #1

And costing an awful lot of money malaise Jul 2012 #2

I'd like Peepsite Jul 2012 #3

Of course not bbinacan Jul 2012 #7

LOL nt Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #8

Interesting question primavera Jul 2012 #133

+1000....Bingo! rgbecker Jul 2012 #148

Good logic Progressive dog Jul 2012 #152

Cut your 30,000 deaths in half - half of those are suicides. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #196

That I won't: suicides are also considered wrongful deaths by law - n/t primavera Jul 2012 #247

What ever it takes to inflate your numbers? ok nt hack89 Jul 2012 #248

No inflation, just the facts primavera Jul 2012 #250

So violent crime and mental health have a common cause hack89 Jul 2012 #269

So how does the law punish a suicide? N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #282

So a simple test that anyone from 15 to 90 can pass hack89 Jul 2012 #198

Considering how many murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally own guns hack89 Jul 2012 #202

Sure, once a law is passed saying they have to shadowrider Jul 2012 #216

You know, I've never understood this reasoning primavera Jul 2012 #246

It's not reasoning bongbong Jul 2012 #251

Over time our present gun laws have led to a drastic decline in violence and crime. hack89 Jul 2012 #270

Not to mention the intent of the trigger puller vs the intent of the driver... rudycantfail Jul 2012 #268

Amen. F. Kafka Jul 2012 #277

Why don't you give blasting away at silhouette targets a break for a week or so? Hoyt Jul 2012 #32

Ok Peepsite Jul 2012 #79

No lobodons Jul 2012 #160

Replace gun with bbinacan Jul 2012 #4

The difference is it is much, much easier to get a gun. hay rick Jul 2012 #29

um...wut? ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #30

No kidding. Plus, killing 12 people with one knife and injuring Zoeisright Jul 2012 #48

Gun nuts are magical thinkers Scootaloo Jul 2012 #95

Yup. And no, you did not forget the sarcasm thingy. AllyCat Jul 2012 #113

it's easier to get a gun than a knife? ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #146

Actually, in my town, yes. 12K people and one knife "dealer" and at least 3 gun shops AllyCat Jul 2012 #172

And you have to through a criminal backcheck to buy that knife? Really. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #199

wasn't talking about background checks AllyCat Jul 2012 #230

Ease of purchase encompasses more then availability hack89 Jul 2012 #232

Try looking around in any supermarket or hardware store. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #283

No, bombs are easier. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #154

You can purchase chemical weapons and bombs? /nt Marr Jul 2012 #111

You can't walk into a store and buy a bomb, no, but if you know what bits to buy shadowrider Jul 2012 #135

If fertilizer bombs are so easy to make... hay rick Jul 2012 #147

I don't know. Let me ask everyone in the U.S. I'll get back to you in 400 years n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #211

Seems to me such purchases are WATCHED. Pholus Jul 2012 #157

Bullshit! GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #167

Probably. My sense of self-worth is disconnected from the number of lethal tricks I know. Pholus Jul 2012 #170

I don't pride myself on being naive. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #273

No, you pride yourself on your "power" over others. Pholus Jul 2012 #276

You completely ignored the point. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #278

Actually, no. I left you some room to make your observation. Pholus Jul 2012 #280

So other forms of violence are OK with you? GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #281

Wow. A "violence culture" eh? Pholus Jul 2012 #286

You don't have to go to a gun store Horse with no Name Jul 2012 #174

All FFLs at a gun show have to have you fill out a 4473 and do and NICS check. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #279

There is a facebook group in our area Horse with no Name Jul 2012 #287

It's easy to make methamphetamine, too. Doesn't make it legal. /nt Marr Jul 2012 #193

Where did I say making a homemade bomb was legal? Oh, wait. I DIDN'T. shadowrider Jul 2012 #213

Let's try to stay on this logical track. Marr Jul 2012 #256

Let's get more logical if you please shadowrider Jul 2012 #274

You keep talking like no one understands that. Marr Jul 2012 #285

I can easily walk into a large grocery store and buy all sorts of things that nasties can be made of hobbit709 Jul 2012 #272

Yes. You do it every time you fill up your car. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #156

That explains the huge numbers killed by gasoline attacks every year. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #162

Snark is not a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #165

Yes it is when massively stupid arguments are made. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #187

That's like claiming pipes are guns. Marr Jul 2012 #188

It can be MADE into one n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #214

So? Marr Jul 2012 #258

Good to know Molotov Cocktails aren't bombs. Bottle, gas, rag...boom shadowrider Jul 2012 #275

Yea, this shit happens all the time Confusious Jul 2012 #122

No,no,no!!! DocMac Jul 2012 #126

You can't go to the bomb shop and buy a bomb. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #161

Yet we don't see many chemical or bomb attacks. Nor are those protected by an outdated morningfog Jul 2012 #215

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #5

Who is talking about having to amend the constitution??? jillan Jul 2012 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #11

Regs can be strengthened and existing gun control laws enforced better. DCBob Jul 2012 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author GarroHorus Jul 2012 #19

so its not reallly a constitution issue... DCBob Jul 2012 #21

What "existing laws are not enforced"? former9thward Jul 2012 #27

Laws against straw purchases are almost NEVER enforced NT Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #101

The straw purchase law is almost impossible to enforce. former9thward Jul 2012 #227

Not entirely true Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #233

SCOTUS allows restrictions on guns, particularly in public. Hoyt Jul 2012 #34

Or it could go the other way and gun rights could be strengthened. rl6214 Jul 2012 #62

Well NRA and gun types have been working for Obama/Dem's defeat. Hoyt Jul 2012 #72

You never know which way a justice will vote, just look at your new favorite justice Roberts rl6214 Jul 2012 #84

Yeah, I support 2nd Amendment too - I interpret it differently. Hoyt Jul 2012 #86

LOL pocoloco Jul 2012 #46

poof! DCBob Jul 2012 #144

pursuit of happiness was about acquisition of material wealth ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #6

I have to correct you here - the pursuit of happiness is defined as a right. jillan Jul 2012 #14

pursuit of happiness was not about fun things to do ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #22

Not entirely--it's also about getting smarter, acquiring knowledge, MADem Jul 2012 #35

there is nothing in the constitution OR the declaration ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #36

You increase your knowledge every time your eyes take in a new thing. MADem Jul 2012 #37

Why would going to the movies be a stretch? n/t A Simple Game Jul 2012 #38

Because Prodigal believes our rights are limited only to a very narrow band of functions Scootaloo Jul 2012 #98

And they probably don't like movies. n/t A Simple Game Jul 2012 #166

Insure domestic tranquility is, however, in the Constitution. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #45

That works for me. nt MADem Jul 2012 #54

And I don't. PavePusher Jul 2012 #109

Every time someone screams "gun ban"... beevul Jul 2012 #130

Of course the gun defenders maintain that more guns in the hands of more people will result in more yellowcanine Jul 2012 #140

Saying 'happiness' is 'getting stuff' is pretty shallow LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jul 2012 #60

why do people keep thinking i said it was in the constitution ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #67

Wanna chuckle? 2ndAmForComputers Jul 2012 #77

LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #255

Read what the UN has to say about human rights WHEN CRABS ROAR Jul 2012 #63

completely irrelevant... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #71

June 12, 1776- Virginia Declaration of Rights. Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #153

No, actually, it's not about material wealth. Scootaloo Jul 2012 #97

wow...everything is a right...unless you're told it's not ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #137

of course we have a right to safety - that NRA meme does not hold water DrDan Jul 2012 #128

no...you don't ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #136

and please continue to listen to your overlords at the NRA DrDan Jul 2012 #139

wow...you just don't get it ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #143

no - I freely admit I do not get this obsession with guns DrDan Jul 2012 #173

Well, my responses have even really been about guns ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #175

we have fundamental rights - recognized by founding fathers DrDan Jul 2012 #176

ok...protected then... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #178

"nanny state"? - there are thousands of laws and regulations based on protecting citizen safety DrDan Jul 2012 #181

'Pursuit of happiness' was a rewrite and imporvement on the original, which was merely 'pursuit of Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #150

+1 Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #234

K and freaking R. nt Chorophyll Jul 2012 #10

yes flamingdem Jul 2012 #12

Amen. Nt xchrom Jul 2012 #13

No flames here, I agree with you Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #15

Thank you for your insight. Anything in extreme becomes a problem. jillan Jul 2012 #18

They also never envisioned handguns and assault rifles. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #49

Exactly!....and tri-corn hats and weekend militia drills... As much as they want. N/t pkdu Jul 2012 #52

Then let's apply the same thinking to the first amendment. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #82

"They also never envisioned handguns...." PavePusher Jul 2012 #110

Er, handguns have been around since the 14th Century... Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #134

Um, yeah, good luck going on a shooting rampage with that. n/t Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #241

What was the musket in the time in which the 2nd was authored? Marengo Jul 2012 #186

I do too. Agree with you and hate gun nuts, both. calimary Jul 2012 #68

"Assault rifles" has a specific legal definition (ask the BATFE) and are highly regulated. PavePusher Jul 2012 #125

Um, he used an AR-15 fitted with a 100-round drum clip Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #242

I'll repeat, for clarity: PavePusher Jul 2012 #244

Yay great. You found some legalistic mumbo jumbo to hide behind Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #259

That "legalistic mumbo jumbo" is the qualifier for a hefty Federal prison sentance.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #262

These are just a few of the things that pop up when I google AR-15 assault rifle Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #288

Other people's inaccuracies (pardon the pun) are not my fault.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #289

I myself don't consider legislation that could save lives piss poor Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #293

Did the previous "Assault Weapons Ban" "save lives"? PavePusher Jul 2012 #298

Well, the simple fact that as a general rule, states with gun control have less gun violence then Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #299

Cite to your stats, please? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #300

The darker the state, the greater gun violence per 100,000 citizens Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #301

Thank you. That is an interesting map and stat set. PavePusher Jul 2012 #302

Do you endorse the possession of machineguns and silencers by law enforcement? Tejas Jul 2012 #219

I also hate Republicans, tailgaters, homophobes, war criminals, Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #243

indeed, and the right to life is a basic human right quinnox Jul 2012 #16

For RWers, inanimate objects - like guns and corporations - have more rights than people. baldguy Jul 2012 #20

zing! fascisthunter Jul 2012 #105

Yes. AlinPA Jul 2012 #23

Fortunately hysteria is a protected right. 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #24

I'm with you on this! Firebrand Gary Jul 2012 #25

Liberals used to say it's a matter of National Security. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #26

This couldn't be a back-handed way for those who want to steal power Fire Walk With Me Jul 2012 #28

Motor vehicles are getting in the way of my rights. Daniel537 Jul 2012 #31

Assault weapons are designed to kill people. Motor vehicles aren't. Chef Eric Jul 2012 #59

Then assault weapons are doing what they are designed for, motor vehicles on the other hand rl6214 Jul 2012 #64

Nerve gas is effective at doing what it's designed for, too. Chef Eric Jul 2012 #70

Not difficult to make rl6214 Jul 2012 #83

You seem to like going off on tangents. Chef Eric Jul 2012 #94

Going off tangents? rl6214 Jul 2012 #117

Again, you're not arguing clearly. Chef Eric Jul 2012 #138

You apparently missed this post by Primavera up thread. rgbecker Jul 2012 #151

59 percent of that 30K are gejohnston Jul 2012 #197

What was my point? rgbecker Jul 2012 #249

No. Who cares about the design? Guns are for KILLING PEOPLE. AllyCat Jul 2012 #116

Mine aren't. What labels do yours have on them? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #263

Even with this event murders by "assault weapons" 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #66

I don't understand your point. Chef Eric Jul 2012 #76

Two points really 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #245

And yet over 40K people are killed every year by cars in this country. Daniel537 Jul 2012 #221

Cars have other functions. wickerwoman Jul 2012 #240

Guns have many uses. PavePusher Jul 2012 #264

Because the US economy would grind to a halt. wickerwoman Jul 2012 #267

None of your declaratives are true. Sorry to have to point that out to you. n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #290

You have to take 2 tests in order to operate a motor vehicle. jillan Jul 2012 #65

Untrue. Completely untrue. N/T beevul Jul 2012 #132

Your auto is tagged and registered. Your usage is routinely monitored. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #163

Not if the car stays on private property. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #168

I only need tags and a license to drive on public roads hack89 Jul 2012 #201

And yet they still kill more than 40K a year. Daniel537 Jul 2012 #223

Fail. n/t ellisonz Jul 2012 #115

Nope. n/t Daniel537 Jul 2012 #222

American Exceptionalism ErikJ Jul 2012 #33

well stated....K and R NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #39

I say the same about alcohol - lynne Jul 2012 #40

You are nuts. Nobody will prevent my wife and from enjoying a beer at Lucky Luciano Jul 2012 #56

Alcohol is regulated. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #164

Yeah, shhhh!! Someone from the gun lobby Lifelong Protester Jul 2012 #41

How about right to life? mahina Jul 2012 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #44

Pro War fucks protest the family service clinics with little white crosses. lonestarnot Jul 2012 #88

Read you. mahina Jul 2012 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #43

Get these dam people out kitt6 Jul 2012 #47

Putin is a coward. Tejas Jul 2012 #114

Well said nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #50

We have to show ID to get a box of Sudafed Politicub Jul 2012 #51

We're still waiting to hear suggestions of "sensible" gun control laws. Higgs boson Jul 2012 #57

Regulating the buying and selling of ammunition Politicub Jul 2012 #58

Magazine capacity Peepsite Jul 2012 #73

the AW ban was wrong CbtEngr01 Jul 2012 #123

I guess you don't know much about ammunition...or how easy it is to make Higgs boson Jul 2012 #254

Why not figure out what compelled this guy to engage in this despicable act? ethereal1 Jul 2012 #53

The theater is to blame, they should have gotten one of these Higgs boson Jul 2012 #55

A Fox "News" vidoe posted by a gun nut Doctor_J Jul 2012 #238

That just happened to be on a Fox link...it's all over the internet. How about responding to the Higgs boson Jul 2012 #253

^ Definitely! ^ Holmes wired his apartment to explode! Mimosa Jul 2012 #190

Welcome. As usual this is going to be an endlessly futile poo-fight over guns, Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #235

I went and saw Batman last night at midnight, rl6214 Jul 2012 #61

And I went to the store etc without being shot and didn't need to carry a concealed weapon sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #80

Ummm. I thought assault............ yost69 Jul 2012 #69

You thought wrong. EOM Raine1967 Jul 2012 #96

Assault *rifles* are effectively banned (rare exceptions), assault *weapons* are not. Angleae Jul 2012 #131

The dead don't care about the trivial technical minutiae of firearms design. baldguy Jul 2012 #155

Thank You jillian, I agree. knr, nuff said. chknltl Jul 2012 #74

The second amendment isn't getting in the way of any of that. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #75

That's why what is styled as 2nd Amendment rights are completely phony. Loudly Jul 2012 #78

And not one fucking thing will change. Nt XanaDUer Jul 2012 #81

I don't know you that well... derby378 Jul 2012 #85

First, pray/send vibes/think positive thoughts for the victims OmahaBlueDog Jul 2012 #87

Excuse Me DallasNE Jul 2012 #106

No, you can't buy guns directly off the internet. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #159

Are You Nuts? DallasNE Jul 2012 #200

Killing with a firearm The Wizard Jul 2012 #89

jillan I took the liberty of making this a jpeg. Let me know if I should remove it. tdb63 Jul 2012 #90

K&R Firearms in this country are not nearly well-regulated enough. qb Jul 2012 #91

You tell 'em, Jillan. 99Forever Jul 2012 #92

A good way to fuck the NRA is to disrupt their money-making enterprise a little bit at a time. firenewt Jul 2012 #212

I'm not stopping YOU from doing anything. Stop trying to stop me without cause. Sirveri Jul 2012 #93

And I am not trying to stop you from doing anything either. What I would like to stop jillan Jul 2012 #107

Then quit coddling violent offenders with the revolving door! Tejas Jul 2012 #118

This guy had exactly one speeding ticket to his name, law breaking wise. And mass killers tend to yellowcanine Jul 2012 #142

The disconnect between what just happened and that remedy is astounding. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #177

Your point is moot, he had no reprisal to fear. Tejas Jul 2012 #209

But you said slap on the wrist; life in prison is not a slap on the wrist. yellowcanine Jul 2012 #220

What is so grueling nowadays about life in prison? Tejas Jul 2012 #225

Prison of any sort is no slap on the wrist. Most people in prison for life or on death row are not yellowcanine Jul 2012 #226

Well, I admit, your "let's not do a fucking thing" idea IS cheaper. Tejas Jul 2012 #229

Of course that is not what I said.....Do you always make people's arguments for them? yellowcanine Jul 2012 #231

Same here. That's why I support mandatory testing and licensing. Sirveri Jul 2012 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author D23MIURG23 Jul 2012 #99

K/R~~~~ LovingA2andMI Jul 2012 #100

What I don't Understand DallasNE Jul 2012 #102

Agreed. But unfortunately the same people that think the NRA is God are also gutting jillan Jul 2012 #108

Your regulations WOULD apply to law enforcement, yes? Tejas Jul 2012 #121

What's Your Point? n/t DallasNE Jul 2012 #191

If YES or NO are too difficult or confusing, I can try posting a poll(?) Tejas Jul 2012 #218

and this is but one misguided person DrDan Jul 2012 #129

I'm Just Now Learning About Mormons. n/t DallasNE Jul 2012 #192

What other legal activites would you like reported to law enforcement? Marengo Jul 2012 #189

So Holmes Legal Rights Trump DallasNE Jul 2012 #194

I notice you didn't answer the question... Marengo Jul 2012 #203

I Don't Answer Stupid n/t DallasNE Jul 2012 #206

No, you can't answer honestly as that would expose your bias. Marengo Jul 2012 #207

KABOOM! fascisthunter Jul 2012 #103

AMEN!!! Some day the American people will stand up to the gun nuts. But what on earth will it take? Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #104

Over half of your list are not "rights". Tejas Jul 2012 #112

Are you not familiar with the Declaration of Independence? jillan Jul 2012 #120

Yes, and those "rights" do not apply to the "feelings" in your OP. Tejas Jul 2012 #124

And "stuff" hahahaha DocMac Jul 2012 #127

We've abrogated our right to general welfare. Festivito Jul 2012 #141

Owning guns is a very LIBERAL IDEA B Calm Jul 2012 #145

It is the most protected amendment there is. jillan Jul 2012 #205

What a stupid post Doctor_J Jul 2012 #239

Lets get one thing straight, I haven't B Calm Jul 2012 #260

You're absolutely right. beevul Jul 2012 #261

Yup Doctor_J Jul 2012 #284

I agree with you, even if technically their are not 'rights'. In MY mind, and MY heart, secondwind Jul 2012 #149

This thread makes me ill. baldguy Jul 2012 #169

Yeah. This. Thanks! n/t Horse with no Name Jul 2012 #179

+100000! jillan Jul 2012 #204

So to be "responsible" means we have to do what you say? Daniel537 Jul 2012 #224

But my life is dependant on some unknown stranger choosing NOT to put a bullet in my head today? baldguy Jul 2012 #228

Your life is dependent on thousands of people making correct decisions every day. PavePusher Jul 2012 #265

+1! Agree completely, jillan... Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #171

Fuck the NRA! FailureToCommunicate Jul 2012 #180

Thank you! Rants don't get more righteous than that. tridim Jul 2012 #182

you are completely right samsingh Jul 2012 #183

I agree completely. CrispyQ Jul 2012 #184

interpreting the second amendment samsingh Jul 2012 #185

This post says it all. Cleita Jul 2012 #195

Precisely. n/t crim son Jul 2012 #208

hendrix Eljo_Don Jul 2012 #210

THANK YOU! One Voice Jul 2012 #217

Compare buying a gun azureblue Jul 2012 #236

Well stated - n/t primavera Jul 2012 #252

Wow, so much that just isn't true. beevul Jul 2012 #266

99% of the vehicles sold in America are intended to be used on public roads baldguy Jul 2012 #271

Cite for that? beevul Jul 2012 #291

You've got to be kidding. Do wingnuts *always* need some authority figure to tell you what to think? baldguy Jul 2012 #292

You should get out more. beevul Jul 2012 #294

10 days before you get the keys to your new car. Tejas Jul 2012 #295

One car per month. Tejas Jul 2012 #296

No cars allowed in Washington, DC. Tejas Jul 2012 #297

on the flip side though. PatrynXX Jul 2012 #237

You make a good point. senseandsensibility Jul 2012 #257