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QC

(26,371 posts)

85. No. n/t

Reply to Vattel (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:36 PM

Jan 2012

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Glenn Greenwald: The intellectual cowardice of Bradley Manning�s critics [View all] Better Believe It Dec 2011 OP

"...By exposing some of the worst atrocities committed by US forces in Iraq..." duhneece Dec 2011 #1

Iraq refused to renew our status of forces agreement because EFerrari Dec 2011 #25

Court Martial: "Lead the guilty man in for a fair trial and sentencing." Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #2

Pretty much what Manning himself stated sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #3

Bit of a straw man there, Glenny. Robb Dec 2011 #4

His defense has been focused on mitigating the crime and consequences. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #5

+1 It's not a matter of *if* he leaked classified material, he did. It's a matter of the amount SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #7

So what if he leaked documents stamped "classified" by some government bureaucrat? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #17

What you said is not the point. When he was granted access to classified documents, he signed SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #28

You compare the governments court martial of Manning to you getting a speeding ticket!!! ??? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #30

The speeding analogy was to try to get a point across treestar Dec 2011 #34

The principal is the same regardless of the severity of the crime. You are making an argument from SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #51

Remember Nuremburg? dougolat Dec 2011 #32

It's not an *illegal* order to safeguard classified material per the agreement he signed. (nt) SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #50

Exposing war crimes is a higher moral priority than fulfilling contractual non-disclosure. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #63

It's not *contractual*, it's federal law. Non-disclosure agreements are punitive. IOW SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #66

When you speak of signatures and oaths, it's contractual... JackRiddler Dec 2011 #67

The *smart* legal people would tell you that he had other options within the law, and chose not to SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #68

Who has suggested that Manning is being prosecuted under international law? The point rather is... JackRiddler Dec 2011 #69

Soldiers and civil servants have an obligation under federal law to not disclose classified material SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #72

Resistance to state aggressions may come in ways your mentality finds chaotic or illegal... JackRiddler Dec 2011 #75

And he violated federal law when he disclosed classified material to those not authorized to receive SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #77

Excuse me, can you think of a government that violated all laws and its own Constitution... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #78

I've explained repeatedly that he had other options sans his criminal activity. SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #79

Yes, he had the option of being ignored and ineffective. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #81

He risked his own life by contacting the IG, his Congressman, the Military whistleblower act? SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #82

You seem to misunderstand what I wrote: He risked his own life by doing what he actually did. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #83

Are you ever going to admit that he broke federal law when he had other options? SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #84

I just said, that if the allegations are true... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #86

First, we don't know if using other means would have been ineffective - he never used them. SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #88

Do you see paradox in your strict advocacy of the disclosure law's letter when resisting war crime? JackRiddler Jan 2012 #89

I don't know how to get you to understand that he had *other* options. You seem to think that SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #90

No, your suggestion is laughable as a viable way to resist and expose war crimes. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #92

My suggestion is the law - and what he should have followed. SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #93

Many have made the argument... ljm2002 Dec 2011 #9

Second all of that Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #40

Morality is not defined by a circuitous minutiae laid out in a rule book. Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #11

+1 Well said. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #18

I do believe: Exactly right. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #76

Attempts at belittling the article's author by calling him "Glenny" is transparent Matariki Dec 2011 #13

Is "Glenny" your buddy now? Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #26

Why do you think his military status distinguishes his case from Ellsberg's? Vattel Dec 2011 #48

Apparently because an oath to obey trumps all other moral imperatives. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #65

Good post. TwilightGardener Dec 2011 #62

Greenwald. LOL...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #6

I believe he has a complaint. Scurrilous Dec 2011 #10

Now *there's* an 'intellectually courageous argument. Matariki Dec 2011 #15

Why waste intellect or anything else on Greenwald? great white snark Dec 2011 #16

man, meet straw Matariki Dec 2011 #22

Dont waste your intellect. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #23

Prove he endorsed Clinton in the primaries dsc Dec 2011 #45

another dur fascisthunter Dec 2011 #61

I guess when one has so precious little to spare...nt Union Scribe Dec 2011 #70

You never really loved him!! Robb Dec 2011 #27

Here's what I notice.... Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #42

Have you ever made a substantive comment in any discussion? Vattel Dec 2011 #49

And that's a "host" nt Union Scribe Dec 2011 #71

and? Bobbie Jo Dec 2011 #74

No. n/t QC Jan 2012 #85

SidDithers. LOL... fascisthunter Dec 2011 #60

Not to mention the standard military excuse gratuitous Dec 2011 #8

The institutional pressure to obey in the military is enormous. Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #12

Exactly! The pressure and threats brought down on you for even thinking about doing something hobbit709 Dec 2011 #38

Haha ... How far did you make it in the military? Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #55

Despite everything, I made it to E-4. hobbit709 Dec 2011 #56

Glenn Greenwald is one of the very best. russspeakeasy Dec 2011 #14

Greenwald is one of the best, he has been completely consistent throughout sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #19

Never compared qthese two Peregrine Dec 2011 #20

It sucks but I reluctantly have to agree if Manning leaked the information he needs to held cstanleytech Dec 2011 #29

"even heros that violate the law should be jailed" How many years do you think Manning should get? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #31

A lot longer for Manning than for Ellsberg. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #91

How long do you think Ellsberg and Manning should rot in prison .... Better Believe It Jan 2012 #94

They should not rot in prison for defending the constitution. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #95

Brad Manning and Wikileaks have been critcized and even threatened EFerrari Dec 2011 #47

K&R for Glenn Greenwald bvar22 Dec 2011 #21

Cheney set the precedence for leaking confidential information. rhett o rick Dec 2011 #24

And for walking free. nt bemildred Dec 2011 #57

Manning is a true American hero. n/t Scuba Dec 2011 #33

Anyone who disagrees with him is an "intellectual coward?" treestar Dec 2011 #35

"No particular wrongs were revealed that are of enough interest to be discussed" bread_and_roses Dec 2011 #37

Greenwald uses hyperbole to attract people to his long polemic essays that lack continuity... Kolesar Dec 2011 #41

Greenwald is a forced ex-pat as the US will not allow gay people to bring our partners Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #44

His reporting stinks for many reasons, ... Kolesar Dec 2011 #52

You are using against him that which is forced on him due to discimination Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #58

Of course, that is not what he says at all. He says the critics of Manning are cowardly Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #43

actually he says the opposite in his piece dsc Dec 2011 #46

K&R (n/t) bread_and_roses Dec 2011 #36

k&r Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #39

Manning is a hero. His critics are tools and fools. Zhade Dec 2011 #53

K&R Karmadillo Dec 2011 #54

Thanks for Exposing the Truth and the BS, Glenn fascisthunter Dec 2011 #59

Recommended. William769 Dec 2011 #64

K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #73

One difference is obvious to anyone not deliberately ignoring it: Ellsberg knew what he was leaking. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #80

Manning has admitted leaking classified info. He did the crime, he'll do the time. MjolnirTime Jan 2012 #87