General Discussion

obamanut2012

(29,337 posts)

60. Should the Chief of Police be judge and jury?

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:20 AM

Jul 2012

In NJ, that's what happens. If the Chief doesn't like you, you don;t get a gun permit. He didn't like your Obama sign in your yard, you dated his niece and cheated on her, you're in an interracial marriage? No gun permit. Maybe your boss calls you a Communist during the process, guess what? No permit.

This process is ridiculous, and all the examples I have used are real life ones. You can sue if this happens to you, if you have the money for an attorney.

There is nothing wrong with having a criminal and mental health check before you can get a sidearm, which is what happened with me. I had another one and had to take a course, complete with practical and written test, to get my CW.

States like NJ have an UNFAIR process to be a gun owner, because the criteria used is not objective.

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In NJ, James Holmes likely would have been caught before committing his massacre [View all] brentspeak Jul 2012 OP

100% correct malaise Jul 2012 #1

What information about this guy is surfacing that would have prevented this? Daniel537 Jul 2012 #2

His mom has expressed brentspeak Jul 2012 #3

Well she said they "have the right person" Daniel537 Jul 2012 #4

Or did it mean "yes you have the right person I am his mother" n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #5

Or did it mean: DocMac Jul 2012 #53

It didn't, it was misinterpreted... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #149

After the fact, your point is moot. Tejas Jul 2012 #51

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness yellerpup Jul 2012 #25

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness AlbertCat Jul 2012 #32

I'm with you, AlbertCat. yellerpup Jul 2012 #33

2nd Amendment trumps emotional cliches. Tejas Jul 2012 #52

If we ever get enough money to buy the Supreme Court back yellerpup Jul 2012 #57

Stanford, is that you? Tejas Jul 2012 #88

Not much of a constitutional professor, are you? Daniel537 Jul 2012 #89

No. Is that what you are? yellerpup Jul 2012 #93

Not legally accurate 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #129

Hang onto that. yellerpup Jul 2012 #134

What "right" 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #136

I'm not upset. yellerpup Jul 2012 #140

You went off on some nonsense about the "right" to pollute water 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #144

I said nothing about the "right" to pollute water. yellerpup Jul 2012 #147

He didn't need the hand guns. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #6

Even in a perfect society, we must be able to filter out the potentially harmful ones. Gregorian Jul 2012 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jul 2012 #56

That assumes that he obtained the guns legally. WillowTree Jul 2012 #8

No need to assume anything. LisaL Jul 2012 #10

Sounds like NJ has a good plan. freshwest Jul 2012 #9

How would you like the NJ approach applied to your right to vote? ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #11

I refered to the OP's take on the matter. It has nothing to do with voting rights. freshwest Jul 2012 #13

Voting is not analogous to possessing a potentially deadly weapon. Chorophyll Jul 2012 #22

Fortunately the courts are not taking such a cavalier attitude towards our constitutional rights ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #37

I'm tired of innocent people being gunned down because of your belief that Chorophyll Jul 2012 #40

an occasional horrific massacre is just the price of freedom then DBoon Jul 2012 #43

Fortunately, courts can be changed and rights for others can be secured by them. CTyankee Jul 2012 #107

This analogy is absurd. 2ndAmForComputers Jul 2012 #117

Should the Chief of Police be judge and jury? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #60

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But checking out mental health should be an ohjective criteria. freshwest Jul 2012 #71

I didn't have a bad experience obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #72

The OP didn describe a state with what you term as subjective gun laws. What you describe is not freshwest Jul 2012 #75

Our police chief has saved countless lives including one suicide that I know of. Walk away Jul 2012 #77

Examples of NJ law enforcement prejudicely denying a gun permit? brentspeak Jul 2012 #146

For a variety of reasons it wouldn't have mattered in this case 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #130

maybe not hollysmom Jul 2012 #12

I would go further and mandate an extensive mental health exam. Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #14

That the potential firearm owner pays for himself. jonthebru Jul 2012 #30

+1,000,000 (n/t) klook Jul 2012 #34

Excellent point. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #39

Would you agree to the same to be allowed to exercise other rights, such as voting? ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #70

If you plan on voting with a gun...yes:-) Walk away Jul 2012 #81

I was speaking of basic 2nd Amendment (ownership) ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #102

Those kinds of subjective tests have historically been used 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #131

And THAT is the way it should be nation wide. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #15

The ant-gun crowd is just as obstinate and extreme. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #29

They're hollering to ban all guns. AlbertCat Jul 2012 #35

Some here on DU for example ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #38

"Some" UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #44

Yes, "some" indicating a undefinitized quantity ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #69

There is half a dozen threads right here on DU. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #47

There is half a dozen threads right here on DU. AlbertCat Jul 2012 #135

Bullshit. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #42

Not true. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #48

It's too late. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #49

"All gun advocates oppose regulating access to guns" obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #61

Absolutely. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #120

Ant crowd uh. The ant crowd. DainBramaged Jul 2012 #74

Can you provide the evidence that he didn't vote for Obama? Marengo Jul 2012 #82

Of course he cant. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #91

Just like you gunnies DainBramaged Jul 2012 #95

Good luck taking guns I dont own. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #100

Why not answer the question DainBramaged Jul 2012 #94

In other words, you can't provide evidence for your assertion. Marengo Jul 2012 #109

Fuck my creditability, I don't give a shit, credibility is for Repukes to defend DainBramaged Jul 2012 #114

LOL! It's rare to see someone willing compromise their own credibility... Marengo Jul 2012 #124

Merry Christmas DainBramaged Jul 2012 #126

And Bon Voyage to your Integrity! Marengo Jul 2012 #128

"Fuck my creditability(sic), I don't give a shit, ..." oldhippie Jul 2012 #132

You saw me not vote for Obama? HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #90

Answer the question then instead of deflecting DainBramaged Jul 2012 #96

Why should I reply to your demand? HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #97

I've voted straight Democratic ticket since I turned 18 over 4 decades ago, and I voted for DainBramaged Jul 2012 #98

Its too bad there's no rolleyes smilie... HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #105

.. . taterguy Jul 2012 #119

Who is this "most of you" you are referring to? Marengo Jul 2012 #110

You didn't ask a question, you issued a declaration. Marengo Jul 2012 #111

Those don't seem like unreasonable checks to me. nt gateley Jul 2012 #16

Incorrect. JeepJK556 Jul 2012 #17

If you are a liberal, you might not get a gun permit obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #62

Holmes didn't have a criminal record the way Zimmerman did. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #18

Should we have test for voting, too? Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #19

"Constitutionally enumerated individual right" beac Jul 2012 #26

+1 yellerpup Jul 2012 #36

. Tejas Jul 2012 #54

What a ridiculous and pathetic argument. beac Jul 2012 #66

So instead of a canned kindergarten reply, offer something of substance. Tejas Jul 2012 #83

How about you offer up something that isn't rehashed and fallacy filled cliche first. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #118

Car ownership is not an enumerated right in the constitution ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #123

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #55

Wow, you honored me with TWO pathetic responses? beac Jul 2012 #67

Your OP had multiple fuckups in it, best addressed in kind. Tejas Jul 2012 #84

And yet, the only argument you seem to be able to come up with, beac Jul 2012 #104

"spamming every shooting thread on DU" - oh, another stalker! Tejas Jul 2012 #106

Wow. beac Jul 2012 #148

The individual right was simply recognized in 2008. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #63

And you don't think a "well-regulated militia" beac Jul 2012 #65

+1 (nt) OmahaBlueDog Jul 2012 #27

You mean he would have just bought one illegally instead? n/t krispos42 Jul 2012 #20

NY too with that kind of check evilhime Jul 2012 #21

So, would...... ethereal1 Jul 2012 #23

Oh, well in that case let's have a free-for-all. Chorophyll Jul 2012 #41

Do you think individuals should be allowed to buy nukes? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #101

You know what is strange. I live in gun-nuttery country. tsuki Jul 2012 #24

Exactly! HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #28

No they're not. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #45

I have no problem with gun ownership mountain grammy Jul 2012 #31

Exactly. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #46

Replace the skeleton stock with a wooden one... HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #50

Welcome to DU mountain grammy malaise Jul 2012 #59

All pistols are semi automatics obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #64

Bullshit. jp11 Jul 2012 #58

Wow, looks like you support the selling of death without question. What do the nuts say DainBramaged Jul 2012 #73

Stop blaming the gun for once. LAGC Jul 2012 #86

Wow you can make asinine accusations absent of evidence or facts jp11 Jul 2012 #108

Go rake some dirt DainBramaged Jul 2012 #115

Yankee state vs. the wild west. They'll always be different, I think. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #68

NJ, 4.2 murders per 100,000 people. Oregon 2.4, Washington 2.3 Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #80

This was a post about gun control, not murder. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #122

Being in Colorado, where were all those CCW holders? n/t doc03 Jul 2012 #76

Unlike the shooter they were obeying the law. ramikin Jul 2012 #78

How about banning semi-auto weapons and limiting magazine capacity? Do you doc03 Jul 2012 #79

The perp was armed with a rifle. LAGC Jul 2012 #87

I was somewhat surprised that there was not an off duty or retired LEO in the crowd ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #103

Banning semi-autos would be a no brainer in a civilized doc03 Jul 2012 #112

Other countries, other cultures do things differently ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #116

Why not also ban all autos except the ModelT? HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #121

Following the law: the movie theater forbids even CCW holders to carry on their property 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #133

I'm sure people are saying the same thing if it happened in Arizona rucky Jul 2012 #85

It did. Gabby Gifford. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #92

Someone who was determined would still buy the weapons, even MineralMan Jul 2012 #99

I live in NJ as a former law enforcement Officer it's hard bigdarryl Jul 2012 #113

I don't think he would have needed an actual carry permit freethought Jul 2012 #143

brentspeak, you are assuming that Holmes would have obeyed NJ's laws slackmaster Jul 2012 #125

"Given that he (Holmes) didn't obey Colorado's laws" brentspeak Jul 2012 #137

He broke laws by taking loaded weapons into a movie theater and shooting a bunch of people slackmaster Jul 2012 #138

Why didn't he buy his guns illegally? brentspeak Jul 2012 #139

Because he didn't have to, but I'm quite sure that he would have. slackmaster Jul 2012 #141

"Because he didn't have to" brentspeak Jul 2012 #145

Didn't he use a rifle? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #127

I think that is higly doubtful freethought Jul 2012 #142