General Discussion

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)

111. My apologies

Fri Dec 1, 2017, 02:22 PM

Dec 2017

I reflexively (meaning "unfairly" in many instances) view requests to define any group of Democratic voters as an invitation to expose my post to an alert for making a divisive group attack.

It is a lesson I received from my law partner (who went from 2 to 5 hidden posts and FFR status in a single day for using the term "Third Way" in a series of Sunday morning posts) when I told him I was going to join DU in order to restore a voice for black Democrats who find the party's current efforts to engage black voters to be both insufficient as a matter of principle and fatal to our efforts to win elections (efforts which are of special importance to black voters as well as all other people of color).

I should have not taken it out on you. Nonetheless, it is a conversation I remain reluctant to have.

I appreciate your response.

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How many on the progressive wing of the Democratic party were duped by Putin?. [View all] Eko Nov 2017 OP

ANYONE and ANYTHING can be easy to manipulate. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #1

Some people are easier than others. Eko Nov 2017 #2

I campaigned for Hillary in the fall. I didn't fall for anything Putin said or did. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #3

Its not my job to pull us together. Eko Nov 2017 #4

I don't claim to speak for "everyone on the progressive wing of the Democratic Party". Ken Burch Nov 2017 #7

That is your opinion that Putins effort did not effect the progressive vote. Eko Nov 2017 #9

I would say that Putin had a far greater effect in swinging working-class voters away from us Ken Burch Nov 2017 #16

Yup, Putin only had to swing/suppress 33,000 votes in the Rust Belt nt Fiendish Thingy Dec 2017 #207

Prove it. No progressives here or any I know elsewhere were influenced by social media associated ancianita Dec 2017 #48

Well, because you dont know any,,,, Eko Dec 2017 #53

You can do that the grey line below your post. Or maybe you did. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2017 #254

Nope. It's not my style. Others can see someone's politics for themselves. I don't censor. ancianita Dec 2017 #258

No. Its a waste of time to keep posting incendiary OPs like this LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #238

Huh, that is a pretty bold statement. Eko Dec 2017 #241

Of course there are 'some' LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #251

Repeat what? Threatening not to vote democratic ticket unless given a reason to do so? Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #253

Repeat inventing a mythical boogeyman in our own ranks as some big problem LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #256

We need to examine it to stop it from happening again. Putin will be back next year and Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #72

OK, so examine it. But we can't work on the assumption Ken Burch Dec 2017 #115

Well sheshe2 Dec 2017 #129

It's not "refighting the primaries" just to disagree with what you think Ken Burch Dec 2017 #181

LOL! NurseJackie Dec 2017 #185

"If a person does those things, that proves that person is not refighting the primaries." betsuni Dec 2017 #188

Actually yes, it does. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #190

people disagree with you heaven05 Dec 2017 #264

People have the right to believe I'm wrong if they disagree with me Ken Burch Dec 2017 #271

Nobody is "misusing" anything. NurseJackie Dec 2017 #274

But it is the whole story...that is what you don't get...they revved up hated against Clinton using Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #220

Bernie's campaign was not a help to Trump and Putin. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #239

It was a gift to Trump...all of the wiki that was used...came from that. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #244

Thank you Ken for your rational explaination LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #228

????????????????? heaven05 Dec 2017 #263

I tried to read that and was afraid I'd start screaming and never stop. betsuni Dec 2017 #265

Exactly! peggysue2 Dec 2017 #204

I've been told here that ALL Democrats are progressives-was news to me-so, what does that tell you? InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #82

You have been told that? sheshe2 Dec 2017 #130

No, don't remember you saying. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #131

I said it...all Democrats are progressive...there are degrees of course...Manchin and Feinstein Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #221

Are you going to now defend Eko Nov 2017 #5

No. I won't defend them. I have no idea why you think I would. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #6

Well, Eko Nov 2017 #8

I didn't SAY that Stein wasn't a problem. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #14

So they do not fall in the wing Eko Nov 2017 #15

Stein and Sarandon were in the Green Party Ken Burch Nov 2017 #17

Stein leads the Green Party-to my knowledge she was NEVER a Democrat. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #25

Reformation? Deadline for nailing your 95 Theses on How The Democratic Party Sucks betsuni Nov 2017 #23

Not "how it sucks"(I never use or even think phrases like that)but how it needs to change Ken Burch Nov 2017 #26

No it doesn't. The 'change' you advocated would cause us to lose...the courts are already being Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #73

I agree that we can't afford another loss Ken Burch Dec 2017 #119

You made me spit out my wine. sheshe2 Dec 2017 #134

Good thing Ken 'splained to me the Reformation thing was a metaphor. betsuni Dec 2017 #140

Why is it so important to you to imagine that I'm talking down to you? Ken Burch Dec 2017 #173

I can see what you type. betsuni Dec 2017 #174

And what I typed on the Reformation thing was simply about making it clear Ken Burch Dec 2017 #175

Hillary Clinton's not my mom. betsuni Dec 2017 #179

And Bernie's not my dad. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #180

Rumor has it that Martin Luther suffered from pretty bad flatulence. betsuni Dec 2017 #182

OK...if you're a socialist(what country do you live in, btw)what is your issue with me? Ken Burch Dec 2017 #192

Lest you think I'm lying, that I'm not a socialist and Hillary is my mom: betsuni Dec 2017 #184

I don't think you're lying, but what you said there has nothing to do with anything I said. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #191

well sheshe2 Dec 2017 #132

If you want go to after Sarandon, fine. I seriously doubt she influenced much of anyone. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #148

same here.... samnsara Dec 2017 #76

And you're not going to pull us together by sneering at "dismissive centrists." betsuni Dec 2017 #139

That was in response to a collective attack on "the progressive wing of the Democratic Party" Ken Burch Dec 2017 #144

Oh Ken, you deleted just for me? My heart is pounding and my palms moist with perspiration. betsuni Dec 2017 #149

I deleted because I realized I could phrase it better than that. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #158

Simple, honest question. does this mean if democrats or liberals are yelling at you Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #164

It isn't about ME-and here's what my comment means: Ken Burch Dec 2017 #165

Yay, I was hoping we'd see another Hillary vs Bernie thread soon. lagomorph777 Dec 2017 #116

LOL, no some of us are skeptical, some are not. bettyellen Dec 2017 #63

Good post. Could have saved myself some time had I read this before responding myself KPN Dec 2017 #105

Evidently a lot. sadiegirl Nov 2017 #10

Yup. Eko Nov 2017 #11

Im a progressive and run in many progressive circles DangerousUrNot Nov 2017 #12

Atheist also. Eko Nov 2017 #13

Im about to watch them now. DangerousUrNot Nov 2017 #18

That was a damn good watch. DangerousUrNot Nov 2017 #24

Actually, it's more like..."Ok Putin was involved...but so what? What do we do with that?" Ken Burch Nov 2017 #29

And this is emblematic of the problems with the JPR mindset stevenleser Nov 2017 #40

Bravo Steven. Eko Dec 2017 #47

+1 betsuni Dec 2017 #50

Exactly they ignore and downplay Russia because they like anything anti HRC- same shit as the GOP. bettyellen Dec 2017 #64

The "real issue of Russian meddling?" GaryCnf Dec 2017 #69

It is your OPINION that you are pushing here regarding the cause of those numbers stevenleser Dec 2017 #84

Okay GaryCnf Dec 2017 #86

I don't have anything to do with "the JPR mindset". I've never been a member of JPR Ken Burch Dec 2017 #120

Bulls eye. sheshe2 Dec 2017 #133

+1 Hekate Dec 2017 #169

See Ken...this is the problem...you would rather ...against all evidence...blame the Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #74

Yep, that's exactly it. nt stevenleser Dec 2017 #87

It ruins their narrative that we have to address the Dem shortcomings because we lost Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #89

It's not a "rather than" situation. An event can have more than one cause. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #95

That is a good point...I can't disagree. And I would even suggest there are multiple levels of Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #98

Blaming the fall campaign is not the same as attacking Hillary. I respect Hillary Ken Burch Dec 2017 #121

I'm with you; it does no good to bury our heads in the sand on these things. alarimer Dec 2017 #81

so what? sheshe2 Dec 2017 #135

I'm trying to get everyone to talk about what is happening now. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #146

Where did I say anything about 2016? Eko Dec 2017 #166

OK, I've assumed it was that election that you were referring to when you spoke of Ken Burch Dec 2017 #167

Huh, Eko Dec 2017 #168

Only, Eko Dec 2017 #170

And there it is. Eko Dec 2017 #171

I didn't put words in your mouth at all. I simply came to what seemed a logical conclusion. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #172

Of course you put words in my mouth. Eko Dec 2017 #208

These "progressives" don't think there is evidence now? Adrahil Dec 2017 #68

Personally I think it is Hillary hate.. DangerousUrNot Dec 2017 #118

You make a lot of generalizations that you can't substantiate... YOHABLO Dec 2017 #186

Well DangerousUrNot Dec 2017 #187

the sheer hatred so many people display towards Hillary Skittles Nov 2017 #19

Hillary is no longer the point. I deeply respect her and mourn the fact that she isn't president. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #30

this lecture is not needed Skittles Nov 2017 #31

Sorry. Wasn't meaning to lecture you personally Ken Burch Nov 2017 #33

Good grief LanternWaste Nov 2017 #34

Just meeting Ken? nt GulfCoast66 Dec 2017 #44

"Damnably ironic" is that poster's SOP. nt Codeine Dec 2017 #96

Some but I am not sure who they were exactly. Willie Pep Nov 2017 #20

A lot and some are still here. Tavarious Jackson Nov 2017 #21

You're assuming that we can't appeal to both. Those two groups largely want the same things. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #27

I know we can't appeal to both. Tavarious Jackson Dec 2017 #127

Pretty much anyone who still believes pizzagate is real is a right-wing extremist. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #147

You are mistaken. yardwork Dec 2017 #150

I doubt it. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #157

Same here. nt Blue_true Dec 2017 #109

Look Russia has never been our friend to assume different......... Historic NY Nov 2017 #22

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2017 #28

I think you should change Progressive to Populist Wing grantcart Nov 2017 #32

Excellent! That is an excellent point and totally spot on. R B Garr Dec 2017 #125

The ultimate tragedy is some certain people on the left I don't have to name Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #35

Virtually none. Jim Lane Nov 2017 #36

conflicting statements about whether the Russians were involved in the release of the DNC emails? Eko Nov 2017 #37

Were the Russians involved in releasing any falsified DNC emails? Jim Lane Nov 2017 #38

Yes. Eko Nov 2017 #39

So of 150,000 emails, ONE had a phony "Confidential" tag added? Jim Lane Dec 2017 #43

Well Jim, Eko Dec 2017 #46

And last, but not least at all. Eko Dec 2017 #49

Answering your two posts and then I'm probably done Jim Lane Dec 2017 #56

I provided you with "one" Eko Dec 2017 #59

You know they were released with edits and time stamps stricken to fool people/ and fool them they bettyellen Dec 2017 #65

Sorry, no, I don't know as much as you're ready to me credit for. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #94

People were fooled by timestamps, because they assumed the emails were sent earlier bettyellen Dec 2017 #113

Clinton was far more conservative than you? VermontKevin Nov 2017 #41

I didn't say "far". That's your word. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #42

Because I share your leeriness GaryCnf Dec 2017 #67

Thanks, but I haven't always been so prudent. Experience is the best teacher. (n/t) Jim Lane Dec 2017 #91

So is Trump more to your liking? There were only two choices...Trump and Clinton... Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #75

You're just DYING to argue with a Stein voter, aren't you? For that, you'll have to go to JPR. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #90

No one here will ever admit to being a Stein voter (and I am not sure any are here.) Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #93

Thank you for your kind words. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #97

Hahahah...I await my comeuppance for blackening the reputation of serial killers Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #99

Progressives who did not vote for Clinton are left wing fascist GulfCoast66 Dec 2017 #45

Not true RandySF Dec 2017 #52

Well, he WAS sticking it to the West. Jim Lane Dec 2017 #58

Baloney. And I never cheered Putin...not ever. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #77

A for effort. I'm glad some here are still trying. Thank you Arazi Dec 2017 #252

Not me RandySF Dec 2017 #51

Nope, Eko Dec 2017 #54

just the JPR typs ! stonecutter357 Dec 2017 #55

How can you be duped by someone who is bombing Syrian children? Alice11111 Dec 2017 #57

Al Qaeda bombed Syrian children. David__77 Dec 2017 #60

...and Assad, even in hospitals & schools, under Putin's Alice11111 Dec 2017 #62

Exactly seven were duped. David__77 Dec 2017 #61

How many on the centrist wing of the Democratic Party GaryCnf Dec 2017 #66

Hahah...the Russians target the so called progressives (not Democrats)...the most gullible among us. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #79

Who/what do you consider the "centrist wing" of the Democratic Party? InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #83

Who do you consider progressive GaryCnf Dec 2017 #85

Sorry, was trying to have a serious conversation. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #102

My apologies GaryCnf Dec 2017 #111

I don't really believe in wings...I hold views on some issues that some could call centrist...and on Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #100

Not surprised at all... appreciate your being candid. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #101

Too many. What I find incomprehensible is that some have doubled down and continue to be used. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #70

I recall lots of RT posting here mcar Dec 2017 #71

Populism has nothing to do with Putin. alarimer Dec 2017 #78

Populism is dangerous...it is used mostly to sway the masses towards a greater evil...consider the Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #80

It can be, but not always. The New Deal and the Great Society were also started with populism. Caliman73 Dec 2017 #103

I don't consider that populism really...but those things were great no matter Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #110

What do you consider populism? Caliman73 Dec 2017 #114

Populism invariably involves manipulative demagoguery. stevenleser Dec 2017 #122

FDR ran a populist campaign, So did Teddy Roosevelt Caliman73 Dec 2017 #138

Thank you! Manipulative demagoguery is exactly R B Garr Dec 2017 #143

My reaction to that comment exactly. KPN Dec 2017 #123

You're using "populism" as a synonym for "demagogy". Ken Burch Dec 2017 #163

I don't hang with MAGATs, just liberals. Greybnk48 Dec 2017 #88

Quite a few and I think we still have some on 'our' side still doing the dirty work for him nini Dec 2017 #92

Ummmm .... from what I've read all people KPN Dec 2017 #104

None. KPN Dec 2017 #106

Oh, and stop the divisiveness man. KPN Dec 2017 #107

Thank you. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #117

McCarthyism? Me. Dec 2017 #137

I have always found populists to be way too emotional. Blue_true Dec 2017 #108

What's a populist? KPN Dec 2017 #124

The collective attack on "the progressive wing of the Democratic Party" as dupes of Putin. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #145

Electoralaction ... I like it! KPN Dec 2017 #152

please heaven05 Dec 2017 #155

The OP didn't say we were ALL duped. It specifically singled out ONE WING OF THiS PARTY Ken Burch Dec 2017 #156

if you say so heaven05 Dec 2017 #160

Read the thread title. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #162

And that means Eko Dec 2017 #210

It means you rhetorically singled out progressive Democrats as dupable, and without call. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #213

No, just more dupable. Eko Dec 2017 #214

And you offer nothing to truly support that assertion- Ken Burch Dec 2017 #217

You have made this assertion Eko Dec 2017 #222

Now you're bringing Bernie into this? Ken Burch Dec 2017 #223

Ha. Eko Dec 2017 #224

No it isn't. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #225

So Eko Dec 2017 #226

He organizes with us in the Senate and campaigns for our ticket in the fall. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #229

So you can Eko Dec 2017 #231

Being a nominal independent is not the same thing as "being in another party". Ken Burch Dec 2017 #232

Is Sanders Eko Dec 2017 #233

In his case, it is a meaningless distinction. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #234

He has ran Eko Dec 2017 #236

in a mayor's race in the Seventies. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #240

And two senate elections. Eko Dec 2017 #242

Yeah. But he's never going to do that. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #246

Why do you keep Eko Dec 2017 #248

I didn't. YOU are the one who won't let it go. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #250

Where did I bring it up? Eko Dec 2017 #259

And six house elections, Eko Dec 2017 #243

LOL! NurseJackie Dec 2017 #245

I mean this is on his site, Eko Dec 2017 #235

I find it extremely intersting that you keep Eko Dec 2017 #215

I'd bet cash money on can't see it. betsuni Dec 2017 #216

I'm largely responding to you tirade about what "mainstream Democrats" Ken Burch Dec 2017 #218

It's not as though non-voters want something different than the people you label "populists". Ken Burch Dec 2017 #159

I was duped MaryMagdaline Dec 2017 #112

You were duped by Russian trolls until you reslized KPN Dec 2017 #126

I did not know they were Russian trolls MaryMagdaline Dec 2017 #128

I applaud your ability to analyze the situation and admit to yourself TheDebbieDee Dec 2017 #151

I try to be aware of manipulation MaryMagdaline Dec 2017 #153

Thank you for posting this. It's exactly how they did it. yardwork Dec 2017 #154

Good Question Eko Me. Dec 2017 #136

K&R JHan Dec 2017 #141

Despite all the hooha here, thanks for posting. Liberal In Texas Dec 2017 #142

How many centrists sold out the Democrats base to hedge fund managers? yurbud Dec 2017 #161

ah yes the usual catch words: JHan Dec 2017 #176

And I wonder who "you guys" are. betsuni Dec 2017 #177

Another version of Democrats are Gop Lite meme. JHan Dec 2017 #178

If today's centrist made policy like those guys, Democrats would not be wiped out yurbud Dec 2017 #189

If you can't tell the difference between the corporate welfare sell outs of the GOP... JHan Dec 2017 #193

I know. You want to win without offending this guy: yurbud Dec 2017 #195

Don't inject strawmen into our discussion JHan Dec 2017 #196

Why don't Republicans seem bound by incrementalism? Or Democrats when it comes yurbud Dec 2017 #199

You're basically ranting now. JHan Dec 2017 #200

I never said Republicans were any good at governing. Even if I keep voting for Democrats yurbud Dec 2017 #247

I saw that millennials poll. JHan Dec 2017 #257

How exactly is misrepresenting what I'm saying an insulting me helping anyone? yurbud Dec 2017 #249

Yes, but Nancy and Chuck "attacked the rich" despite what Clooback threatened. lapucelle Dec 2017 #262

I am glad to see that. thanks! yurbud Dec 2017 #266

It's also disingenuous to say that the ACA was from the heritage foundation... JHan Dec 2017 #194

Ooops. Obama said as much himself: yurbud Dec 2017 #197

I just laid out the clear differences between the plans. JHan Dec 2017 #198

I'm glad it's better and I said it was better than what existed before yurbud Dec 2017 #201

It was a less ideal solution in less than ideal circumstances... JHan Dec 2017 #202

we agree on all of that. Since Democrats ended up passing it with a simple majority yurbud Dec 2017 #205

"nothing stopped them from adding the public option" JHan Dec 2017 #260

That is the unhappy truth: the obstacle was "centrist" Democrats who yurbud Dec 2017 #267

er JHan Dec 2017 #268

Who in a red state doesn't want decent public schools, free college, and Medicare for all? yurbud Dec 2017 #269

And you act like they haven't...or that those policy issues are simple.. they aren't. JHan Dec 2017 #270

Scotland article said tuition was free, but it sounds like they cut other grants that helped poor yurbud Dec 2017 #272

and maybe we could have substantive discussions instead.. JHan Dec 2017 #273

I'm sure there are some. Eko Dec 2017 #209

Do you really believe many of them will admit it? sadiegirl Dec 2017 #183

How Many? peggysue2 Dec 2017 #203

And how many were duped by the dupes? Fiendish Thingy Dec 2017 #206

A far bigger problem, IMO, is the number of party loyalists who think any criticism is a Putin lie.. aikoaiko Dec 2017 #211

Good point. Eko Dec 2017 #212

Well said. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #219

Here's your final answer Russia now, nor ever has been our friend..... Historic NY Dec 2017 #227

The question now is "how many are still being duped?" Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #230

I remember 2014 and Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2017 #237

During the primary I saw people say that Hillary and Trump were the same. nycbos Dec 2017 #255

yep. JHan Dec 2017 #261