Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

aikoaiko

(34,214 posts)
25. Blaming the NRA is missing the point.
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:31 PM
Jul 2012

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2012, 12:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I can only assume that Bill is engaging in election year posturing because he is not making a good argument.

He tries to connect rhetoric from the 2007 NRA convention with the VATech shooting, but there is no evidence that Cho was connected to the NRA in anyway.

He tries to connect the NRA's stance on the arms treaty to the shooting in Aurora, but they have nothing to do with one another.

He says there are a lot of guns in the US and many are complying with legal requirements to carry them which includes criminal background checks, but compliance with the law is a good thing, no?

Toys are regulated more than guns? I don't even know how he can make that point, but it is unsupported by any facts.

Then he goes on to say that violence is our alter ego and we'll move on from this tragedy. He's probably right about that.

No one is saying that people should own any weapon they want without regulation. This is a great strawman. Most gun owners and NRA support some form of gun control laws.

Here is the part that is most shameful: he brings up the specter of terrorism to prop up his argument.

The thing that Bill Moyers and others don't understand is that before 1968, you could buy any legal firearm and ammo via the mail without background checks. You could file the paperwork and own any domestic or imported fully automatic firearm which, in general, didn't cost more than twice a semi-automatic version. Prior to 1968, the NRA was very reasonable.

It was the "guns are evil crowd" that brought about drastic and punitive laws that inflamed gun owners and empowered the NRA in order to fight back. Not that I think that all the gun laws since 1968 are bad, but many were clear attempts to punish people who we now call in the gun culture but would never even think about committing a crime with their guns.

For the record, as a gun owner, Democrat, and NRA member, I reject the nonsensical, hyperbolic, and even false rhetoric coming out of the NRA these days, but I seek to change the NRA from within.






Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bill Moyers frames this brilliantly. yellerpup Jul 2012 #1
Here's the video malaise Jul 2012 #2
Something interesting in the comments section of that video.. truth2power Jul 2012 #18
I did wonder malaise Jul 2012 #21
It's time to ban support of the NRA at DU. nt onehandle Jul 2012 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #6
Gun culture in the cess pool claim that expansion of guns is "progressive" and they even go as far Hoyt Jul 2012 #22
Yet you spend so much time in that "cess pool" rl6214 Jul 2012 #37
Still keeping tabs on me while fondling your guns. Hoyt Jul 2012 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #40
Thanks. It's sad that society has to put up with this, not to mention their polluting DU. Hoyt Jul 2012 #43
"The best thing we can do is work toward getting that cesspool closed down" rl6214 Jul 2012 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #68
Why don't you answer the question Hoyt permatex Jul 2012 #51
Keeping tabs? Nope, just curious. rl6214 Jul 2012 #66
Agree!!! gopiscrap Jul 2012 #28
I disagree Patiod Jul 2012 #30
So why do *you* choose to wade in that "cess pool" on a regular basis? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #35
+2 nt Chorophyll Jul 2012 #7
i'd like to see that. barbtries Jul 2012 #8
Can we still support the RKBA and gun ownership in general? hack89 Jul 2012 #45
it's up to the mods. barbtries Jul 2012 #47
Because I am curious where you draw the line hack89 Jul 2012 #49
the fact that i wish barbtries Jul 2012 #60
I routinely defend the RKBA here without ever invoking the NRA hack89 Jul 2012 #61
did you read Jason Alexander's essay about this? barbtries Jul 2012 #62
There are so many other things out there to be scared of hack89 Jul 2012 #63
you didn't respond to one thing i said. barbtries Jul 2012 #65
Yes hack89 Jul 2012 #69
i am not scared barbtries Jul 2012 #70
Good - that makes two of us. Peace. tn hack89 Jul 2012 #71
Yes, as well as Wall St. raouldukelives Jul 2012 #10
Good point. ananda Jul 2012 #11
AMEN _ed_ Jul 2012 #16
I agree!!! gopiscrap Jul 2012 #27
No ban is necessary - your scintillating discussion of gun control is winning the day aikoaiko Jul 2012 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #42
Please don't confuse reasonable debate on gun control with your posts. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #48
No, the reasonable debate includes people who wish to restrict gun possession as well as.. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #50
Arguing with him is like arguing with a wall permatex Jul 2012 #53
bupkus is his name afterall. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #57
Right on cue permatex Jul 2012 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #55
Oh would I love to tell the NRA where they can stick it. Initech Jul 2012 #34
I don't support the NRA Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #41
Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention rurallib Jul 2012 #4
Thank you for posting. myrna minx Jul 2012 #5
Thanks. nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #9
he is completely right samsingh Jul 2012 #12
meantime back in Washington tooeyeten Jul 2012 #13
ID we don't need no stinking ID QUALITYCONTRoll Jul 2012 #14
You already need IDs to buy guns gejohnston Jul 2012 #15
for private sales also???? . . . . 40% of all gun sales DrDan Jul 2012 #20
You do in my state, or you will be going to prison obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #52
Maybe from a dealer you do, secondvariety Jul 2012 #23
Come on GE. You know a lot of guns get sold privately (back alleys) without checks or anything. Hoyt Jul 2012 #24
QFT ananda Jul 2012 #33
NRA Members are selfish fools _ed_ Jul 2012 #17
12 More People Died Ccarmona Jul 2012 #19
Blaming the NRA is missing the point. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #25
Great post. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #29
Feh. Moyers has been trying for decades to make up for being a hatchet man for LBJ. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #36
Back in 1968 people weren't as calloused and ready to shoot people. Hoyt Jul 2012 #39
Murder rate in 1968 = 6.9 per 100,000. Murder rate in 2010 = 4.8 hack89 Jul 2012 #46
I don't think Hoyt has ever gotten anything correct permatex Jul 2012 #54
Moyers > racists fearing some inevitable Helter Skelter and insane Navy washout who never saw combat MisterP Jul 2012 #26
NRA's hold locks Jul 2012 #31
WE NEED AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN NOW vanlandingham Jul 2012 #56
Correction permatex Jul 2012 #59
And his thousands of rounds of ammunition. He knew he was going to shoot a lot of people. AlinPA Jul 2012 #64
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Colorado Shootings: Lates...»Reply #25