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Would the USA be better today if we had just let the South secede? [View all] Calculating Dec 2017 OP

Yes but... RainCaster Dec 2017 #1

No. The end of slavery was more than worth it... First Speaker Dec 2017 #2

A CSA could well have ended up an ally of the Axis powers DFW Dec 2017 #81

Best case would have been to win the War of 1812 and lose the Civil War. FarCenter Dec 2017 #3

Hell no! janx Dec 2017 #4

Word irisblue Dec 2017 #51

'what have they ever brought our country' melman Dec 2017 #5

Jazz and several good Democratic presidents, as well Hekate Dec 2017 #12

and hominy. ret5hd Dec 2017 #14

Eww!!!! LeftInTX Dec 2017 #41

You don't like hominy? janx Dec 2017 #53

Yes, it is one of the better foods with hominy LeftInTX Dec 2017 #71

many fine authors DrDan Dec 2017 #93

And, Stephen Colbert, Eartha Kitt, George Clooney, Ellen DeGeners, Oprah, GoCubsGo Dec 2017 #100

Faulkner, Thomas Wolfe, Tennessee Williams, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee . . . DrDan Dec 2017 #101

Well, having lived in the South for over 30 years, GoCubsGo Dec 2017 #102

been here 34 years . . . no intention of leaving DrDan Dec 2017 #103

Let's ask sarisataka Dec 2017 #6

Not for black people janterry Dec 2017 #7

The West Coast, too. TDale313 Dec 2017 #65

That's The Way I See It Too SeaDoo77 Dec 2017 #83

I see! HoustonDave Dec 2017 #163

It's an interesting question Yupster Dec 2017 #8

... demmiblue Dec 2017 #9

Not for enslaved black Americans it wouldn't.Just because morons begot morons who want to bring back Hekate Dec 2017 #10

Well, the North is much better because it gave us a fantastic president out of NYC dalton99a Dec 2017 #106

Point. And California gave us Richard Nixon. Pardon me while I barf Hekate Dec 2017 #109

and the vile demented asshole Reagan dalton99a Dec 2017 #111

For white Northerners, it would have been better. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #11

Wasn't slavery gonna die off anyway though? Calculating Dec 2017 #15

They sure gobble up California tax money. Leaches, they are. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #17

Hey Sophia, it is spelled leeches. cwydro Dec 2017 #50

I went to high school in the South. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #57

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #61

The bitterness is due to the backwardness of the Southerners I knew. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #68

I live in the South - have for the past 34 years DrDan Dec 2017 #113

Having lived among them. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #116

wow DrDan Dec 2017 #119

The South almost entirely votes Republican. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #121

The mountain states and midwest almost entirely vote Republican too ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #140

Wasn't always that way. The South is the center of the conservative Sophia4 Dec 2017 #141

So you think Idaho ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #143

They are all conservative, but not slave states, not racist. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #144

"Both apply" quickesst Dec 2017 #75

leachers -- things that leach, people that drain, filter, etc. people Sophia4 Dec 2017 #78

States like Alabama and Louisiana would love to leach the wealth from Sophia4 Dec 2017 #107

Look... quickesst Dec 2017 #122

Actually, I now live in California lived in Europe for years. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #125

Okay fair enough quickesst Dec 2017 #142

Fucking Nazi!!! Grammar Nazi, that is... madinmaryland Dec 2017 #132

That's far from clear Jim Lane Dec 2017 #85

Apartheid janterry Dec 2017 #90

why don't you look up how long apartheid actually lasted Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #161

is your intent to divide DUers with these offensive broad-brush posts? DrDan Dec 2017 #92

It would have lost its economic viability, but left the social and legal construct in place. Go Away Hekate Dec 2017 #110

You mean like the people in Wisconsin who voted Trump? delisen Dec 2017 #13

I have never seen, in the North, the kinds of shot-gun houses, the dire poverty Sophia4 Dec 2017 #79

OH,WI,PA and MI standingtall Dec 2017 #16

Stolen elections are not won.......OH,WI,PA and MI..... magicarpet Dec 2017 #29

This is why this Kris Kobach Fascist Pig...... magicarpet Dec 2017 #35

No ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #37

There's a difference between "voter fraud" and voter suppression Merlot Dec 2017 #46

There is election fraud too.... magicarpet Dec 2017 #60

The concept that slavery would've ended anyway is at best speculative. tirebiter Dec 2017 #18

Your question needs defining... dixiegrrrrl Dec 2017 #19

I have never ever seen an OP like this on DU like never before GusBob Dec 2017 #20

This is a silly question ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #21

No! ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #22

Correct - ProudLib72...... magicarpet Dec 2017 #39

Grant was following Lincoln's direction gladium et scutum Dec 2017 #123

I get the point of reconciliation ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #124

Appomattox was not a treaty gladium et scutum Dec 2017 #127

I edited that ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #146

You are correct in that respect gladium et scutum Dec 2017 #148

Broad-brush much? cry baby Dec 2017 #23

DAMN Im sick of this stuff! nolabear Dec 2017 #24

Music, food, literature, culture-- janx Dec 2017 #42

This is one of the ugliest threads I have seen on this site. What a shame. Tipperary Dec 2017 #56

the t-word comes to mind . . . DrDan Dec 2017 #94

It certainly does. Reading over this thread, I can see several who want to divide. Tipperary Dec 2017 #97

it can be ugly here at times. Folks who claim to be liberal/progressive making these statements are DrDan Dec 2017 #99

If we are speculating, I wish we had lost Revolutionary War, we'd have England's health system. n/t. Hoyt Dec 2017 #25

We should be cultivating southern Democrats, not insulting them. Sneederbunk Dec 2017 #26

what if d_r Dec 2017 #27

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. dawg Dec 2017 #28

This shit again... GulfCoast66 Dec 2017 #30

I know, right? cwydro Dec 2017 #52

Yes. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #31

They would have joined back up with England. All that aristocratic privilege. jalan48 Dec 2017 #32

One might imagine moondust Dec 2017 #33

Fuck no! denbot Dec 2017 #34

Yep, them Southern Democrats were totally out of hand n/t Alea Dec 2017 #115

It wasnt them being democrats, it was the amoral inhumanity. denbot Dec 2017 #130

Sorry I triggered you Alea Dec 2017 #133

Im currently in the South, Midway GA. denbot Dec 2017 #139

Sir, it is changing. Alea Dec 2017 #150

That was both my hope and understanding. denbot Dec 2017 #154

Thanks denbot. I took no offense to anything you said. Alea Dec 2017 #158

Every political problem in the country today traces its roots back to Confederate political ideology LonePirate Dec 2017 #36

Oh bullshit! GulfCoast66 Dec 2017 #43

Slavery is not a modern US problem but go ahead and take offense any way. LonePirate Dec 2017 #48

Good point. n/t janx Dec 2017 #64

No because I was born in Virginia (Appalachians) where there are no jobs to blueinredohio Dec 2017 #38

Well, I'm a Democrat from PA, so my answer might be a tad biased. WinkyDink Dec 2017 #40

Why? n/t janx Dec 2017 #55

Gee, hmm....Because I wouldn't live anywhere below the Mason-Dixon Line? WinkyDink Dec 2017 #86

Good thing PA was so enlightened ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #104

The last black America elected to Congress in the nineteenth century struggle4progress Dec 2017 #44

I think of stereotyping as a right wing go-to. I find it sad to see here. Tipperary Dec 2017 #58

If they wanted to secede, or currently want to... krispos42 Dec 2017 #45

What an awful post oberliner Dec 2017 #47

Agreed. janx Dec 2017 #54

Ah, a good old south-bashing thread. cwydro Dec 2017 #49

A little off point but the thing that confounds me the most: Cary Dec 2017 #59

My opinion of those who would allow secession matches those who want to secede. gordianot Dec 2017 #62

This again? mcar Dec 2017 #63

No DBoon Dec 2017 #66

So do we have to move Idaho, North Dakota etc.. down there nini Dec 2017 #67

YES!!!!!!! gopiscrap Dec 2017 #69

Lincoln was just too benevolent to them after we kicked their asses world wide wally Dec 2017 #70

Lincoln was dead before the war ended. Caliman73 Dec 2017 #73

What is it you are Calculating with your hit and run, pot stirring OP? Hekate Dec 2017 #72

Russian elehhhhna Dec 2017 #96

Name it. It stinks. Hekate Dec 2017 #108

I am with the majority. The answer is not No, but Hell No. Caliman73 Dec 2017 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author dalton99a Dec 2017 #76

The mistake was having a racist pig as Lincoln's VP MattP Dec 2017 #77

You mean the President gladium et scutum Dec 2017 #147

Presidents don't sign amendments and he campaignd against them MattP Dec 2017 #162

Thank, did not know that, gladium et scutum Dec 2017 #164

No, segregationist Woodrow Wilson, was the worst. former9thward Dec 2017 #149

no, especially not the black people who lived there. JI7 Dec 2017 #80

The important question is not what about then but what about Now. MarcA Dec 2017 #82

I was born in VA. MFM008 Dec 2017 #84

My best friend has deep, deep Southern roots... Hekate Dec 2017 #88

Disgusting question and insensitive as hell to boot. n/t Stand and Fight Dec 2017 #87

The USA should have been divided into at least 4-6 individual countries long ago. democratisphere Dec 2017 #89

No ClarendonDem Dec 2017 #137

you do know there are some us living in the south because we like it DrDan Dec 2017 #91

Fuck that. Just stop. elehhhhna Dec 2017 #95

These ignorant threads bashing the south always offend me Orrex Dec 2017 #98

Amen. Dr. Strange Dec 2017 #105

You might be my favorite Pennsylvanian OriginalGeek Dec 2017 #117

The ignorance is on you for thinking the entire South is to blame... cynatnite Dec 2017 #112

No, and please stop asking... Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #114

The blues would be foreign music. Rock, too. kwassa Dec 2017 #118

It's a bad question becuase asking it in and of itself Raine1967 Dec 2017 #120

Anyone who thinks this issue of racism and tribalism and stupidity by voters is Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #126

Better off if the US had lost the Revolution, honestly Spider Jerusalem Dec 2017 #128

Hey what happened to your old avatar? denbot Dec 2017 #155

Vanished along with Photobucket hosting! Spider Jerusalem Dec 2017 #156

Ouch denbot Dec 2017 #157

There is no "the South". guillaumeb Dec 2017 #129

Ask Chuck Thompson, he wrote the book on the subject Binkie The Clown Dec 2017 #131

Its the land of e pluribus unum, at least that is what the Wizard said. bronxiteforever Dec 2017 #134

Disregarding slavery DangerousUrNot Dec 2017 #135

What also would have worked GaryCnf Dec 2017 #136

No. The "greatness" of the USA is based on it's journey and promise. ecstatic Dec 2017 #138

It's unclear to me why ANYONE would think that permitting SLAVERY to continue... NurseJackie Dec 2017 #145

We would be better off if tapermaker Dec 2017 #151

Well, our African American citizens might think it was worth it dawg day Dec 2017 #152

Disneyworld would be in a different country. So no. It wouldn't be worth it. Kablooie Dec 2017 #153

I've seen this post way too many times here at DU in the last 14+ years ms liberty Dec 2017 #159

Western expansion would have put us in constant conflict with the CSA Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #160

"what have they ever brought our country? Ignorance, racism, anti-scientific thinking, etc." mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2017 #165