General Discussion

Tejas

(4,759 posts)

30. Quoting numbers concerning the tool over and over is not facing the root problem.

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 04:24 PM

Jul 2012

The existence of a gun culture in the US and the relatively lax firearms laws are the biggest single factor. You can't look at the statistics of the US compared to Canada or Australia or the UK or Germany or Japan or France or any other advanced industrial democracy re gun crimes and deaths and not conclude that maybe there is in fact a problem. Are there other problems that also contribute to violence? Sure, and no-one is denying that; the USA is deeply broken and seriously fucked-up in many respects, but the ease of legal access to firearms is a big part of the problem nonetheless.

This is what I would like to see addressed but everyone seems consumed with gunsgunsguns and can't (or do not want to) look past that at the underlying problems. Maybe after a week or two of complaining about guns some will want to move forward with discussion on fixing what is broken.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

91 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

As long as the 800lb gorilla [View all] Tejas Jul 2012 OP

When was the last time someone killed 12 and injured 58 in 2 minutes with a knife? Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #1

Sooooooo, 2 dead due to stabbing is okay? Tejas Jul 2012 #5

There is no perfect solution. Limiting the casualties is the best we can hope for. Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #13

"I bet every parent" - yes, and water is wet. Tejas Jul 2012 #17

I am interested in saving lives. You seem to think you can change all of society Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #72

"You will never figure out" - okay, thanks for your input. Tejas Jul 2012 #85

You can't argue with gun owners. They're irrational people... Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #6

Yeah, gun owners use facts and don't respond to histrionics. Arguing with them must be hell for you. Edweird Jul 2012 #26

Facts!!!! Oh .. Bull.... _____! Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #73

Yep. Facts. Real facty type facts,even. Not the fake Brady or VPC 'facts' that aren't true. Edweird Jul 2012 #75

How about equating a baseball bat with an AR-15, is that a "fact". Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #82

Yeah, um, you're gonna have to show me where I equated a bat with an AR15. Edweird Jul 2012 #86

What kind of gun did Timothy McVeigh use? He killed 168 and injured over 800 in seconds. Edweird Jul 2012 #23

Trolls here would ban on trucks. Tejas Jul 2012 #35

He used a Ryder truck gun. boppers Jul 2012 #61

How often does that happen compared to deaths from guns? Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #71

and afterwards.. booley Jul 2012 #81

9/11 - they used box cutters to take over the planes (nt) The Straight Story Jul 2012 #78

and look at all the laws that were created because of it Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #83

Exactly. But expect nothing but misdirection and straw men in response to the salient question. villager Jul 2012 #80

when somebody can walk into a movie theater and cause 71 casualties in minutes with a baseball Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #2

Ditto n/t malaise Jul 2012 #7

So, you are more concerned with # of casualties than causality. Tejas Jul 2012 #8

yes that is exactly what I said. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #9

That you don't care what caused it, just what tool was used? Tejas Jul 2012 #12

Makes a major difference to the extra number of people who are dead treestar Jul 2012 #11

So, # of casualties is more important than the cause? Tejas Jul 2012 #15

Of course. If you kill 2 people with a knife but could have killed 12 people with a gun treestar Jul 2012 #16

But *why* were they killed? Does that matter? Tejas Jul 2012 #18

It matters to them treestar Jul 2012 #84

strawman... handmade34 Jul 2012 #29

If they do care, then where is the discussion? Tejas Jul 2012 #32

the discussions go on daily here handmade34 Jul 2012 #36

Great, then let's see some of these so-called discussions. Tejas Jul 2012 #39

McVeigh killed 168 and injured over 800 in about 2 seconds without a gun. Edweird Jul 2012 #20

Yes and in the wake of his murderous spree left is right Jul 2012 #59

Well I see you just ran full tilt off the cliff lunatica Jul 2012 #3

Stick around, instead of a snark you might actually Tejas Jul 2012 #10

you are right. Banning guns will not stop violence. mysuzuki2 Jul 2012 #4

Nope. Highly efficient killers use bombs. Edweird Jul 2012 #21

Agreed. Tejas Jul 2012 #25

Just like making drugs illegal has curbed drug use.nt Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #14

The USA has a rate of gun-related deaths 8x higher than other developed democracies. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #19

Quoting numbers concerning the tool over and over is not facing the root problem. Tejas Jul 2012 #30

There are 90 guns for every 100 people in the USA Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #34

He could damn sure kill as many (more actually) with just some gas alone or easy to make explosives. Edweird Jul 2012 #37

"20 mass shootings a year" - cite? Tejas Jul 2012 #38

Way to miss the point Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #41

No, it's not. A bomb is. Using a gun on a lot of people is actually labor intensive. Edweird Jul 2012 #43

Sure, you have to pull the trigger, that's a tremendous amount of work. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #44

That's like saying "all you have to do to use a jackhammer is pull the trigger". Edweird Jul 2012 #47

So are you denying the simple facts of the number of mass shooting incidents? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #49

20 a year? Substantiate that. I believe that is a lie. Edweird Jul 2012 #52

Sources are provided for the stories. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #54

Substantiate the '20 mass shootings a year'. I saw 6 for this year. Where are the rest? Edweird Jul 2012 #55

It's July? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #56

I don't know about your calender, but mine has 12 months. Edweird Jul 2012 #57

Buy a dictionary and look up "average" and get back to me Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #58

So... substantiate. You've shown 6. Ok, so show the OTHER years with the more than 20 Edweird Jul 2012 #60

You can't read, can you? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #63

The FBI defines mass murder as 4 or more with no cooling off period. Edweird Jul 2012 #67

Except we're talking about shootings including wounding, not just murder. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #68

That move of the goal post didn't change anything. My previous post still applies. 'Mass' = >4 Edweird Jul 2012 #70

Amateur bomb making is neither a simple nor a risk free task.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #50

ANFO is about as simple and risk free as you can get. Edweird Jul 2012 #62

How about FBI or DOJ instead of a group of Republicans wanting to ban guns? Tejas Jul 2012 #45

The data are valid, the source is irrelevant Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #46

Like your '20 mass shootings a year'. The source is relevant if it is lie. Gun grabbers lie. Edweird Jul 2012 #48

On average one a month so far this year: Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #51

You're not very good at math are you? Edweird Jul 2012 #53

The fact that extremely biased Republicans are your source is relevant. Tejas Jul 2012 #87

nobody wants your guuuunnnnnnnns.... spanone Jul 2012 #22

You can ban guns if you want to, it will help some...... wandy Jul 2012 #24

There are more things that we can do than your one dimensional solution to these problems. upaloopa Jul 2012 #27

I offered a solution? Really? Tejas Jul 2012 #40

As soon as they invent a 100 round baseball bat or knife that can kill scores within a few moments hlthe2b Jul 2012 #31

A 5 gallon jug of gasoline at each exit and the death toll would have been much higher. Edweird Jul 2012 #42

A 5 gallon jug of gasoline does nothing. boppers Jul 2012 #64

Clue: detonators are nothing but glorified fireworks. Edweird Jul 2012 #69

Yeah, but gun nuts aren't about logic. boppers Jul 2012 #74

Richard Speck used a knife. murielm99 Jul 2012 #33

As it stands now, we can�t force people into treatment until it is proven that they are a threat to left is right Jul 2012 #65

Should we not look at mental health and access to weapons? boppers Jul 2012 #66

This OP is pure, unadulterated bullshit Tsiyu Jul 2012 #76

As much as you may like guns quaker bill Jul 2012 #77

We never address .................. SILVER__FOX52 Jul 2012 #79

You forgot something: sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #88

I didn't mention poison or hands/feet or drunk driving or strangulation either. Tejas Jul 2012 #89

Yes they matter a lot. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #90

Correct, they account for 30% of FBI homicide figures. Tejas Jul 2012 #91