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jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
20. Question away, of course, but those weren't expected outcomes of the prohibition
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 06:20 AM
Apr 2012

on pot. Actually a site at http://www.druglibrary.org/prohibitionresults.htm says that people come up with such misleading information about this so often they documented their answers. A start if one really wants to learn about alcohol prohibition. One of the characteristics of prohibitions is that there is, by definition, no regulation, so a new problem appeared, childhood drinking. People were making the stuff in their bathtubs - wasn't exactly hard to get. Direct testimony talks about an initial improvement by the observation of fewer drunks on the street, but after a couple of years of prohibition the problem was worse than ever.

Google is handy, if someone really cares.

I think anyone who takes a serious look at alcohol prohibition will come to the conclusion that it was tantamount to throwing the rules out the window, pouring every 10,000th barrel down the drain, and calling it enforcement. The cities were awash in the stuff, what passed for corruption in those days was common, and rural folk had their own recipes. Winners in alcohol prohibition are hard to find, but the people who lost out were the police who tried to enforce it, the lives that were ruined in that failed pursuit, and the country for all those losses. They only regained control when they legalized it so they could regulate it.

Btw, the assertion that alcohol being less ok decreases alcoholics only holds true in this country. In most of Europe the phobia about alcohol is far less severe, it is much more culturally accepted in a family setting, yet they report far fewer problems as a result. We must be special.

I find it humorous that the authorities are so helpless in the face of their marijuana war. Weed use has been widespread since I was in junior high in the 60's, and it's widespread and way more sophisticated now. Except for the lives that are ruined by needless arrest and jails, the shit is completely unregulated, so it is everywhere. Few people REALLY care. Pension funds are underfunded while the state spends tax money playing this silly game they can't possibly win, and the police add to their expenses helicopters - expensive helicopters - so they can spend a day in the brush on the taxpayers dime. I do not feel safer.

But back to the questions - more or less legitimate, maybe a little specious. I notice there is nothing in there about the societal cost concerning and to tens of thousands of people arrested or jailed or negatively impacted by enforcement. Because we know the stuff is everywhere anyway, and few seem to care, why are we spending money and hurting people to enforce a policy derived from and sold with racism, not science or potential outcomes?

This question -> "If we legalize marijuana, for example, will we have a worse obesity problem?"<

So we might spend hundreds of millions on a drug war to prevent people from getting fat? I would think we could buy them their choice of P90x or a Zumba DVD and come out a lot cheaper.

The problem is the framing. There is some assumption that the current prohibition is providing much of a curb on marijuana use, and I think people are fooling themselves. It is in garages, bedrooms, thousands of outdoor locations with just a few plants or more. And that's just the 15 year olds It is a weed. It does not take rock science to figure out how to grow it. If you just throw it out the back door on the ground anywhere South of Washington State it will probably grow fast enough that you might be surprised. Grow a bunch of it and the helicopters will come and shake the seed all over several acres for you. Nice helicopters. It is absolutely illegal, yet seeds and plants are shipped in thousands of ways around the world every day. Prohibited, yeah.

Millions of people smoking pot regardless of the prohibition, just because they like it. And yet because of the prohibition in our free society one can never find out enough about it, stop it, or even use it as a resource. It will sap every dollar and life put into that enforcement with a negative return. In addition, I was listening to the owner of the Medical Marijuana place on tv the other day, (understand his focus is adults - no children). His hypothesis (and others) is that there is far more depression among the adults in our country than we acknowledge, and since we really, really suck at dealing with mental health issues we are seeing millions of people self-medicating. So there's a few million more. I guess usage could, and probably would, go up some, but it sounds like the market is pretty large already.

So there really isn't much control, it's most everywhere anyone wants it, (in jail too - LOL) but there are thousands of lives needlessly ruined in pursuit of a failed policy. And we can't regulate it because it's prohibited.

With so much evidence that the war on marijuana users is largely ineffective, potentially hurting us more than it is helping, I wonder if the best question is why?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K&R Arctic Dave Apr 2012 #1
the police industrial complex and its commander in chief will not like this or go along - cuts into msongs Apr 2012 #2
Yep - the status quo serves the for-profit prison complex AND big pharma. polichick Apr 2012 #73
Such a no-brainer. Webster Green Apr 2012 #3
I watched one of the virtual people on tv the other night trying to rationalize the administration's jtuck004 Apr 2012 #4
Smart move, best to keep your powder dry and gun ready for bigger game...... MindMover Apr 2012 #5
My questions about the meme about prohibition having ended mob rule are these: JDPriestly Apr 2012 #13
Here's a graph of the homicide rate in the USA.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #16
Interesting the second peak in homicides felix_numinous Apr 2012 #46
That's an excellent graph RainDog Apr 2012 #51
Here you go.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #53
thanks! n/t RainDog Apr 2012 #54
We don't outlaw everything that is bad for people. And alcohol is far worse for people than pot is. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #18
Setting aside the fact that marijuana is probably not as damaging to our health JDPriestly Apr 2012 #58
Are you really that uninformed? uwep Apr 2012 #19
More than that, the start (not end) of Prohibition *increased* alcohol consumption among women. ieoeja Apr 2012 #39
likewise waddirum Apr 2012 #68
Question away, of course, but those weren't expected outcomes of the prohibition jtuck004 Apr 2012 #20
Portugal seems to have had a better outcome with decriminalization RainDog Apr 2012 #23
THANK you. i was about to go google for this link, which tells the whole story 99th_Monkey Apr 2012 #44
Thanks. "a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies." That's good news. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #59
In the case of hard drugs, dispensing needles to addicts RainDog Apr 2012 #61
there's also data from the Dutch policy RainDog Apr 2012 #24
The U.S. imprisons more people per capita than China RainDog Apr 2012 #25
And very expensively, too. nt bemildred Apr 2012 #33
Doesn't china execute their drug dealers? lupulin Apr 2012 #37
Probably JonLP24 Apr 2012 #48
the apt comparision would be drug USE, not dealing RainDog Apr 2012 #49
True - it is not a comparison lupulin Apr 2012 #65
The issue was arrests, not use. You then made the issue dealing, not arrests RainDog Apr 2012 #66
my point was merely lupulin Apr 2012 #67
my remark was veering into snark RainDog Apr 2012 #69
Do you know anyone whose parole violation duhneece Apr 2012 #71
no lupulin Apr 2012 #75
Very good points. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #60
The War on Drugs has hurt millions duhneece Apr 2012 #70
You might want to check out the Drug Policy Forum RainDog Apr 2012 #26
My questions are more along the lines of: 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #38
the answer to that one is clear to me RainDog Apr 2012 #50
The reality is that anything that prohibits personal choice is a burden on the economy. Gregorian Apr 2012 #6
Here's the problem. TheWraith Apr 2012 #7
Hopeless and obsessed...... MindMover Apr 2012 #8
Is that really true? It would make an interesting polling question Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #10
I doubt it. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #17
Yes, the problem is $$$... IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 2012 #35
This isn't about "liking drugs" or not RainDog Apr 2012 #27
I have made the same argument. And it is worse. ieoeja Apr 2012 #40
Ryan Grimm was a lobbyist for MPP RainDog Apr 2012 #57
It's an election year. truthisfreedom Apr 2012 #9
It will be part of the national conversation; it's on the ballot in two states. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #11
Our 3 Dem. gubernatorial candidates were asked about it in the first televised Tunkamerica Apr 2012 #14
Yeah, NC. Meanwhile, 16 States plus DC already passed Medical Marijuana laws with Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #29
And in Washington State pscot Apr 2012 #30
Well, I was responding to the prvious poster who said it won't even be part of the Tunkamerica Apr 2012 #77
I was curious and dug up the actual list of signers... bluedigger Apr 2012 #12
along with economists from Yale, Stanford and Cornell RainDog Apr 2012 #52
Did I touch a nerve or something? bluedigger Apr 2012 #55
that was my own post RainDog Apr 2012 #56
VCSU doesn't seem to be a community college Tunkamerica Apr 2012 #62
Your list is breath-taking! duhneece Apr 2012 #72
Thanks for the kind remark RainDog Apr 2012 #74
30 helens... Tunkamerica Apr 2012 #15
It only takes one lobbyist with a fat wallet that disagrees with them to keep it Dragonfli Apr 2012 #21
500 economists agreed during the Bush administration as well. RainDog Apr 2012 #22
President responds: Uh, ummm., ahhhhh....God is in the Mix! Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #28
By their acts you shall know them pscot Apr 2012 #31
Job security is at stake: bemildred Apr 2012 #34
Ending the drug war saves US billions if not trillions of dollars anti-alec Apr 2012 #32
Kicked and recommended for common sense, logic, compassion and sanity. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #36
Aw, Jeez, not this shit again. The Stranger Apr 2012 #41
I know what you mean, people demanding freedom, privacy, and logic based common sense policies Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #43
Too bad this will be ignored... FlyByNight Apr 2012 #42
Legalzie now! sarcasmo Apr 2012 #45
And about 530 federal level politicians disagree.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #47
Finally, 300 economists I agree with. n/t rayofreason Apr 2012 #63
Or another way to put it.....300 economists agree on something....WOW !!!!!! MindMover Apr 2012 #64
298 also want potato chips, and can we put on some Earthless? sofa king Apr 2012 #76
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Over 300 Economists Agree...»Reply #20