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JonLP24

(29,929 posts)
30. International law isn't something I'm well aware of
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:13 PM
Mar 2015

It only seems to apply when it is convienent & under US law that law is at a crossroads with something like than international law US law based on precedent US law has more legal authority over any law that applies to the US but I remember the Kosovo exception was specifically mentioned in Independence claim from Crimea.

There are many opinions from law professors you can read this one seems well informed. One quickly cited the Ukraine constitution as to why it doesn't matter what International law. One says Crimea is free to participate in elections but they haven't in awhile & Parliament threw out the person they voted for so I wanted to ask him how Ukraine specific circumstances apply to these so called precedents

Ascertaining the legitimacy of the interim government in Kiev is quite tricky. According to Article 111 of the Ukrainian constitution, the President can only be impeached from office by parliament through “no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition.” On February 22, 2014 the Ukrainian parliament voted 328-0 to impeach President Yanukovych who fled to Russia the night prior. However for an effective impeachment under constitutional rules the 449-seated parliament would have needed 337 votes to remove Yanukovych from office. Thus under the current constitution, Yanukovych is still the incumbent and legitimate President of the Ukraine.

This constitutional oversight puts the interim government in legal limbo as the bills that are currently being signed into law by acting President Turchynov are not carrying any constitutional authorization. This problem of legitimacy also undermines Kiev’s dealings with foreign governments, as the government appointed by Turchynov does not represent the de jure official government of the Ukraine. As such, foreign governments who are willfully recognizing and thereby trying to confer international legitimacy upon the interim government in Kiev, are indeed breaking international law by violating (1) the sovereignty of the Ukraine and the law of the land (constitution), (2) the principle of non-interference, (3) and the practice of non-government recognition.

Whether the interim government in Kiev has effective administrative control over state territory also remains highly speculative, given the unfolding situation in Crimea, civil unrest in the eastern part of the country, and the persisting confusion in the chain of command within the Ukrainian military and police force.

Accordingly, the interim government in Kiev does not fulfill any of the three factors set out under international law that would render it legitimate.

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/03/russia-in-ukraine-a-reader-responds/#more-33021

He actually legitimately applies precedents specifically applies it to Ukraine and he is 100% right when the 1991 Constitution is used to applied, however the 2004 Constitution allies more leeway if there is criminal charges so which one is Ukraine following? But anything regarding its government, structure, overall system is very troubling & overall there are very good reasons why a region would want to declare Independence from a government with simply a bad system of government. I forgot about the 1996 Constitution as well so Ukraine 90% like independence. The person who was the first popular elected leader who did better in the East than the West.

But politicians who did well in the east were accused of "vote rigging", the Supreme Court of Ukraine (and however legitimate they are said) said Yanukovich 2004 victory doesn't count because of "vote rigging" but given how easily a Constitutional Court judge can be dismissed for "oath violations" is it really legitimate? International law, which ideally would be argued in fair court, or now international law I don't see a lot of reasons to keep it together because it doesn't work out in the end for those who do well in the "popular vote" category except for the recent scaled back elections which less Eastern polls opened and none in Crimea which works out regarding how they dispute elections if the East votes one way when they vote another.

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So when is Crimea going to be liberated JonLP24 Mar 2015 #1
Gallup is part of fascist Russia's plot. JackRiddler Mar 2015 #21
Its really bad given the current reporting of information right now JonLP24 Mar 2015 #23
And here we are again... JackRiddler Mar 2015 #25
Please tell me you don't actually believe Putin is the Saddam in that analogy. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #27
Viewed from the U.S. side, yes. JackRiddler Mar 2015 #39
No matter the angle, Putin is the Bush in that analogy. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #40
Really? JackRiddler Mar 2015 #41
... NuclearDem Mar 2015 #42
"Russia's natural gas interests"? JackRiddler Mar 2015 #45
"the Kiev war" NuclearDem Mar 2015 #48
Thanks for adding common sense. The current headline is also out of context newthinking Mar 2015 #31
I do believe Crimean voted in favor by a very narrow majority JonLP24 Mar 2015 #32
That was the Ukrainian Independence referendum. Crimea's was 94%, not a slim number. newthinking Mar 2015 #33
Crimea was 94%? Are typing the right number or the right region or you mean? Ukraine JonLP24 Mar 2015 #34
"The coup just was the ignition that made what the people there have always wanted happen." Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #44
ugh... newthinking Mar 2015 #51
"There was no seizing of the parliament." Seriously? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #54
You made it sound like the Crimean government itself was seized newthinking Mar 2015 #57
Because that's exactly what happened. It was seized. Literally, seized. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #58
Um newthinking Mar 2015 #59
WTF? You sound just like Bill O'Reilly. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author newthinking Mar 2015 #61
I'm sorry, but unless you have some facts that substantiate an alternate narrative on Crimea... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #62
I have offerred plenty of facts repeatedly newthinking Mar 2015 #64
Is this The House Of Cards? rickford66 Mar 2015 #2
Just sad. SpankMe Mar 2015 #3
Why is keeping Ukraine intact so important? JonLP24 Mar 2015 #4
I'm not sure what this has to do with the subject.... Adrahil Mar 2015 #10
Which is what the people of Ukraine is saying during all this JonLP24 Mar 2015 #20
So if we invade Canada will you be asking us geek tragedy Mar 2015 #13
Actually, Canada but I moved to Sweden in my head as a better example JonLP24 Mar 2015 #16
Why don't you google Slovakia? JackRiddler Mar 2015 #22
For reasons of international law Scootaloo Mar 2015 #28
International law isn't something I'm well aware of JonLP24 Mar 2015 #30
That's so WWII? JackRiddler Mar 2015 #26
where have you been? Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #52
I missed the part where the USA uhnope Mar 2015 #55
Not surprising Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #56
Putin is a master at obfuscation and desception blackspade Mar 2015 #5
"He would have been just annihilated. …" ashling Mar 2015 #6
oh that Putin, he is always doing some new thinking nt msongs Mar 2015 #7
he's a real purveyor nt uhnope Mar 2015 #19
Putin has no shame. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #9
sure. Russia marched into WW2 Ukraine, millions killed by nazis..they never really left. Sunlei Mar 2015 #11
No surprise. I disputed your use of 'Novorussia.' I was wrong: freshwest Mar 2015 #12
your point that "New Russia" was maybe the same as the old Russian Empire was well taken. nt uhnope Mar 2015 #15
Well, at that time I thought it was a fantasy, though. Thanks. n/t freshwest Mar 2015 #18
Sorry...but I don't remember many arguing... Xolodno Mar 2015 #14
I'd rather the legal or say the broke the law without a trial agreeing JonLP24 Mar 2015 #36
The Knights of New Russia freshwest Mar 2015 #17
In other words ... Igel Mar 2015 #24
"Supporters of fascist Russia here on DU" Scootaloo Mar 2015 #29
You mean words like 'murder,' 'rivals,' and 'dictator?' tabasco Mar 2015 #49
Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #50
First of all... Adrahil Mar 2015 #63
K Cha Mar 2015 #35
Perhaps preempting Nemtsov's disclosures. moondust Mar 2015 #37
What did he admit too exactly? JonLP24 Mar 2015 #38
I'm sure the plans to invade date back even further than what Putin is now admitting. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #43
No doubt they've had plans to invade since 1991. JackRiddler Mar 2015 #46
February 26, 2014. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #47
No doubt, the continued expansionism of New Russia will be rationalized by the apparatchik on DU. LanternWaste Mar 2015 #53
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