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Igel

(37,401 posts)

19. There's disaster capitalism.

Sat May 2, 2015, 06:41 PM

May 2015

Then there's disaster socialism, often terms socialist disaster.

Post 1991 a lot of Russian economists were busy showing that their disasters had been of their own making. It was only really in 2000 that Russian economists decided that it was more important to show that their disaster was caused by external countries--precisely the time when Stalin's purges became a subject for increasing silence and the USSR was resurrected.

Then the papers on Khrushchev's corn policies, GULag population versus GDP, inefficiencies of production, silly policies against bourgeois sciences, suddenly fell into disrepute.

A lot of Americans tried to ignore the research in the '90s. What was said in the 2000s resonated with what they had always known, in their heart of hearts, to be true.

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Venezuela to nationalize food distribution [View all] Zorro May 2015 OP

Well, what's going on right now christx30 May 2015 #1

The government and its policies are what is not working. hack89 May 2015 #2

Yeah they have those. MyNameGoesHere May 2015 #38

I know. With Maduro's poor ratings an election will bring the needed change. Nt hack89 May 2015 #41

I agree 100% christx30 May 2015 #161

This is the result of being on the US Shit List. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #7

LOLOLOLOLOL. GGJohn May 2015 #8

Now, just snark. salib May 2015 #25

The US is Venezuela's largest trading partner by far..... EX500rider May 2015 #37

Prove it. GGJohn May 2015 #39

Have that proof yet? eom. GGJohn May 2015 #63

The US has economic sanctions on Venezuela. Beauregard May 2015 #97

Those sanctions are against 7 govt officials for their role in the brutality against protesters, GGJohn May 2015 #99

That's what MOST of the media has said.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #36

Ok then, GGJohn May 2015 #40

The fact that they are an oil rich nation with no milk should be enough. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #44

That's your proof? GGJohn May 2015 #45

Did it ever occur to you that mutli-national corporations have an agenda? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #46

You still haven't provided ANY proof that the US is responsible for GGJohn May 2015 #48

I'm going by what I've heard on NPR and "Democracy Now!"... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #54

Yes I do, and every thing is speculation, not fact. GGJohn May 2015 #56

And I suppose those would be "market based"? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #60

How the hell would I know? GGJohn May 2015 #61

Here.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #66

While I admire Noam chomsky, GGJohn May 2015 #68

I did. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #75

Uh, no you didn't. GGJohn May 2015 #77

I posted a clip from "Democracy Now!" mentioning US sanctions.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #81

Those US sanctions are against certain govt officials, not the country in of itself. GGJohn May 2015 #82

You mean we can't sell a government official a Lincoln? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #84

It means that the Obama Admin. slapped sanctions against certain govt. officials for GGJohn May 2015 #86

It can import it but it hasn't been getting distributed. Hence the OP. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #88

There is actually very little hoarding going on, the govt just likes to trump up charges GGJohn May 2015 #90

Actually, if lines are like that it proves the state run stores have the supplies. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #95

There are plenty of pics showing bare shelves in those stores. GGJohn May 2015 #100

Socialism didn't cause that.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #102

I never socialism caused that, GGJohn May 2015 #105

Look at all the factories in Venezuela that have shut down hack89 May 2015 #107

Whichs begs the question spoutinghorn May 2015 #111

Err.. the US produces more oil than Venezuela, and we already buy most of their oil Recursion May 2015 #155

It's a lame effort to rally the people. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #166

Well I think the people want toothpaste, which they don't have? (nt) Recursion May 2015 #167

Politicians still don't get that the people have the web to see the truth. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #168

Maybe? I don't know. I'm much less confident about things than you are. Recursion May 2015 #169

They have a history of revolution.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #170

So do we Recursion May 2015 #171

Exactly madokie May 2015 #47

VZ nationalized their oil industry 43 years ago. GGJohn May 2015 #52

yeah, more neoliberal bloodletting will help a lot yurbud May 2015 #160

It worked SOOOOO well in Russia during the 1930's... Archae May 2015 #3

What a disaster--Maduro is a hot mess, he doesn't have a clue. MADem May 2015 #4

This may shock you but Socialism doesn't create shortages.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #65

No, but corruption and mismanagement does, GGJohn May 2015 #69

I bet if WE ever went full tilt European type Socialism there would be RW sabotage. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #71

Maybe, maybe not. GGJohn May 2015 #73

People like Limbaugh would call on all of his loyal listeners to take up arms.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #83

Frankly, I don't give a crap what Limpballs would do. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #87

There was a time when he had real power.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #89

But he never did, and that power has now evaporated. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #91

Hence, the pic. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #93

Ahh, now I get the context of the pic. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #94

That's O'Reilly and Hannity's fan base too. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #96

I wouldn't know, GGJohn May 2015 #101

You have a difficult time with humor,...don't you.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #103

Sorry, was tired last night, GGJohn May 2015 #106

Irrelevant in this case FBaggins May 2015 #76

Do you agree that they are an "extraordinary threat to national security"? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #85

Are you saying that President Obama was lying? FBaggins May 2015 #112

They are NOT a "threat". That's just a legal fiction they had to add to justify sanctions.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #126

They absolutly are FBaggins May 2015 #158

How are they a threat? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #163

Do you even read what you reply to? FBaggins May 2015 #173

LOL!!! Oh sure, next you'll claim we need to do sanctions against Greece. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #174

Laughable FBaggins May 2015 #176

It's only a "threat" if you believe Capitalism is the only way to go. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #177

This is why the distribution is being taken over.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #128

Indeed ChangoLoa May 2015 #134

Oh make no mistake about it, when it does fail, GGJohn May 2015 #142

This may shock you but there are more than just two options. FBaggins May 2015 #74

A lot of their problems are based on their reliance on oil as their main export. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #79

Close FBaggins May 2015 #110

"their current economic woes are almost entirely of their own making" Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #130

Try? Possibly... but succeed on that scale? No. FBaggins May 2015 #157

"Bad" according to who? American economists? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #165

No... not just American economists FBaggins May 2015 #172

price caps creeksneakers2 May 2015 #78

Letting stuff sit in warehouses until it rots does too. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #80

Which is a result of the price caps...selling under cost is a bad business model. EX500rider May 2015 #108

People are not going to sell goods at a loss hack89 May 2015 #114

People are not going to sell goods if it can cause loss of support for a government they don't like. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #127

But that is not the case here. hack89 May 2015 #129

That flies in the face of the fact that they do have money.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #131

They had dollar shortages before oil prices tanked hack89 May 2015 #133

I'm sure the World Bank calling in their former loans has nothing to do with that. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #135

Chavez paid off those loans 5 years early in 2007 hack89 May 2015 #139

I read that he quit them. Not that he paid them. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #151

You read wrong. Nt hack89 May 2015 #152

Jeez. GGJohn May 2015 #144

Chavez had 12 years to diversify hack89 May 2015 #136

Why are you pretending Maduro is a "socialist?" MADem May 2015 #115

Where did they go? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #132

The Grand Caymans (if by "they" you mean the MONEY) and real estate holdings in FL MADem May 2015 #154

From what I've read it's due to oil prices dropping.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #164

Thought I smelled smoke.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #5

How to make a bad situation worse. FLPanhandle May 2015 #6

No, he has a playbook. Igel May 2015 #17

Party is mother, party is father ChangoLoa May 2015 #137

Why all the right wing talking point responses. salib May 2015 #9

Maduro created this mess with his policies hack89 May 2015 #10

Well, I guess if the right wing TPs are called out, then default to snark. salib May 2015 #12

There is no embargo against Venezuela hack89 May 2015 #13

Funny, I said "near embargo" salib May 2015 #15

There are no economic sanctions against Venezuela hack89 May 2015 #28

Yes, there are salib May 2015 #31

"Nor prohibit the export of crude oil to the United States" hack89 May 2015 #33

The "oligarch" is the one who controls the oil industry n/t ChangoLoa May 2015 #138

Your whole post is ridiculous. GGJohn May 2015 #14

More of the same. salib May 2015 #18

Forgive me if I am mistaken but are you arguing with them that US policy is to blame for cstanleytech May 2015 #35

They've arrested people who were hoarding to create shortages to jack up the price. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #49

That's what they claim, GGJohn May 2015 #53

"Corrupt"? By WHO? The USSR? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #55

Corrupt by any standard of ethics. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #58

Now it's your turn to provide examples. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #59

Easy. GGJohn May 2015 #62

LOL!!! You call THAT "corruption"? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #64

You really need to get informed on the oil industry in VN. GGJohn May 2015 #67

All of that reads like a oil company press release. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #70

All that reads like the truth of the state of VN's oil industry, electrical grid and economy. GGJohn May 2015 #72

All of the nation's wealth was going towards the rich folks at the top.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #98

Since the oil industry is nationalized I assume you mean the $ is going to Maduro & his cronies? EX500rider May 2015 #109

It's obvious that poster doesn't know a thing about the country or it's economics, otherwise MADem May 2015 #120

And now VN is going to buy more weapons from Russia and China. GGJohn May 2015 #122

Trade away more of that heavy, sour oil!!!! nt MADem May 2015 #123

".....were hoarding to create shortages to jack up the price" EX500rider May 2015 #116

There's disaster capitalism. Igel May 2015 #19

Wow, that is a clever turn of phrase, right. salib May 2015 #21

"The Cold War is over. Give it up and step out of that box. " Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #57

Nothing is wrong with those, christx30 May 2015 #16

Now it sounds like George Will salib May 2015 #20

But it IS about what the country can afford. christx30 May 2015 #22

Ok, again, a country's economy is not in any way like that of a family, salib May 2015 #29

Because thinking like that christx30 May 2015 #30

Wow, more snark. salib May 2015 #32

That's great snark. christx30 May 2015 #34

Maduro and Chavez greatest crime.. clg311 May 2015 #11

Thank you. salib May 2015 #23

More useless slogans. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #43

Venezuela like every other oil producing country sells all it can at the current market rate. EX500rider May 2015 #117

I guess the Maduro haters. clg311 May 2015 #124

... GGJohn May 2015 #125

More corporate media propaganda clg311 May 2015 #140

You have no fucking idea of why VN is my business, GGJohn May 2015 #143

So why is it your gd business then? Zorro May 2015 #145

Just responding to the ignorant attacks on Maduro. clg311 May 2015 #146

Not ignorant, GGJohn May 2015 #149

Obama and Hillary supported the Honduras "coup"? Zorro May 2015 #141

God the ignorance! clg311 May 2015 #147

Eva Golinger? Zorro May 2015 #148

Eva Golinger????? GGJohn May 2015 #150

HAHAHA, "Global Research" EX500rider May 2015 #153

There are so many articles written on the subject, and they can't attack them all, can they? Judi Lynn May 2015 #156

Don't you ever tire of bombarding forums with anti-US/anti-Obama/anti-Democratic agitprop 24/7? Zorro May 2015 #159

Obama's policy regarding Venezuela, as one example, is indestinguishable from George Bush's. Judi Lynn May 2015 #178

Thanks! NT clg311 May 2015 #175

I forgot to mention, welcome to D.U., clg311! Judi Lynn May 2015 #179

If the farms are owned by the government, and the workers paid as government employees, no problem. freshwest May 2015 #24

I smell burning Ne 3s2 3p4 seveneyes May 2015 #26

I wonder who they'll blame when this doesn't work. name not needed May 2015 #27

Whom ever is convenient. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #42

The ones who buy their oil? Nah, couldn't be. And they won't dare squeak at China. n/t freshwest May 2015 #104

I'm guessing Maduro's supporters will get food and anyone who opposes Maduro won't. NobodyHere May 2015 #50

Maduro doesn't look like he's missed any meals. nt MADem May 2015 #121

Maduro is incompetent, just like his predecessor. Little Tich May 2015 #51

this is a JOBS Program quadrature May 2015 #92

the US is the second largest agricultural exporter to Venezuela Bacchus4.0 May 2015 #113

yeah, worlds worse "embargo".....lol EX500rider May 2015 #118

I LMAO when someone claims the US has economic sanctions against VN. GGJohn May 2015 #119

It will make shortages and distribution worse. n/t Bacchus4.0 May 2015 #162