Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
49. This has been war gamed over the last 40 years and the results all always the same
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:00 PM
May 2015

The political leadership decides they can NOT afford NOT to attack, even if it means massive losses of American Lives. If the Politicians decides NOT to launch an attack, member of the opposition party will call him weak and demand his impeachment (or even Coup). That is the Political Reality of that scenario and why First Strike talk generally died out under Reagan.

This political rule, while discussed as early as the 1950s, became US official Policy under Nixon. Nixon wanted the Soviet Leadership to think he was nuts and if they did anything to bad he would launch a massive Nuclear Strike, even if that meant massive US losses.

That basic policy has NOT changed, it is still the unofficial US Nuclear policy. Once you accept that is the US Nuclear Policy (and it is), then a First Strike has no validity, no matter the results the US will launch a massive nuclear strike, be the strike be one bomb or 500 bombs (and in certain cases, left unclear to instill fear in the Soviet Leadership, conventional military action could lead to a massive nuclear strike and to a good degree that remains US Nuclear policy)

That is the reason First Strike has been a non issue since Reagan. That is the reality, no matter who is in charge in Washington, it is the Politicians who opt for Nuclear weapons way before the Military brass does. Can a sitting President, from a political point of view, NOT attack? Remember the old saying "It is easier for a Hawk that was wrong to be forgiven, then for a Dove who was right to be forgiven". That sums up most politicians view on the use of Nuclear Weapons and why they opt for them before the Military brass does in the war games over the last 40-50 years.

Thus your scenario is one of those scenario that keeps coming back but like the old joke about betting on a person walking backwards from NYC to LA, it could happen but the smart money is NOT on it. Thus General Powell comments that he can NOT see a situation where the US would use a Nuclear Weapon. The Russians and Chinese are NOT going to destroy the US for they need the US. The rest of the Nuclear powers have very limited ability to hit the US with a bomb, and if they did the US could strike back with massive conventional forces (and to a great degree this applies to China for most of its recent growth has been along its coast, thus an easy target for US Planes flying from US Bases in the Pacific. Russia is a harder target to reach but being almost land locked easier to contain with just a few conventional bombs in the right locations). Thus the US does NOT need nuclear weapons.

As to the limit of 500 bombs, as far as the US, Russia, China, Britain and France are concern, they either are at 500 bombs of less right now OR (US and Russia) can achieve that low number quickly. Thus 500 bombs is a limit that is achievable AND variable (Each could cheat but given modern technology the most Atomic Bombs AND the delivery systems to carry them to target any of them could hide from detection would be a couple at best, the delivery system being the harder to hide of the two). We could then work down to 50 each and again the major control will be on the delivery system of such weapons not the weapons themselves (if you have no way to deliver the bombs, why have the bomb?).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Hopefully this claim can be corroborated by somebody other than anonymous "former U.S. defense... BlueEye May 2015 #1
Their source is senior US officials bananas May 2015 #6
Preparing To Set Up Their Next 911 billhicks76 May 2015 #30
Time to destroy Pakistani installations and stockpile now n/t cosmicone May 2015 #2
You figure that Hillary will go to war with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? delrem May 2015 #8
Saudi Arabia is no power cosmicone May 2015 #14
That sounds about as smooth as a line from George W. Bush. delrem May 2015 #15
And then where do you think the remaining Pakistani nuclear arsenal would end up? Sobax May 2015 #26
The Saudis already paid for Pakistan's nuclear program. No need to buy it. leveymg May 2015 #32
"Saudi Arabia is no power" EX500rider May 2015 #37
How many of their soldiers are willing to die? cosmicone May 2015 #39
That will end well Recursion May 2015 #27
If a country decides to use a nuclear weapon on another country, you can damn well believe it YOHABLO May 2015 #3
unless terrorists get ahold of it IronLionZion May 2015 #5
Another bloviating war-lover. nt bemildred May 2015 #4
Interesting to see the lack of public reaction from Israel Algernon Moncrieff May 2015 #7
It means Israel has more faith in Saudi Arabia to act rationally then they do Iran Lurks Often May 2015 #12
No, it is an understanding that these are NOT aimed at Israeli. happyslug May 2015 #18
You are entitled to your own opinion Lurks Often May 2015 #34
Excellent analysis of the situation Telcontar May 2015 #36
Discourage anyone from having Nuclear weapons, even if that means boycotting them. happyslug May 2015 #40
500 nuclear weapons is too few Telcontar May 2015 #44
You can destroy any country ability to conduct war with 50 bombs happyslug May 2015 #45
Your focus is on a counter-force strike Telcontar May 2015 #47
This has been war gamed over the last 40 years and the results all always the same happyslug May 2015 #49
Makes sense from Saudi Ariabia's point of view. Surprised kiranon May 2015 #9
I don't think so lancer78 May 2015 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer May 2015 #28
That was the approach with Former Soviet "loose nukes." The Paki nukes already belong to KSA leveymg May 2015 #33
Saudi Arabia and Israel are allies Jesus Malverde May 2015 #10
On the down low is correct. This has been happening for years. At least Iran has known it for year kelliekat44 May 2015 #13
Saudi Arabia has signed the NPT, I don’t think they dare to break it. n/t Little Tich May 2015 #16
Both India and Pakistan dared to break it. delrem May 2015 #17
India and Pakistan never signed the NPT. Little Tich May 2015 #20
OK. Otherwise, my point stands. delrem May 2015 #21
Never really thought of that. But you’re right. n/t Little Tich May 2015 #23
I didn't know there were "off-the-shelf" nuclear weapons. Kablooie May 2015 #19
So, who do you think is arming and funding ISIS? delrem May 2015 #22
I thought it was these guys... Kablooie May 2015 #24
This is the nightmare scenario MFrohike May 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer May 2015 #29
Iran has little to fear from Pakistani Nukes happyslug May 2015 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer May 2015 #42
But Pakistan is controlled by Urdu speaking elites NOT Islamic radicals happyslug May 2015 #43
Keeping OBL and giving them nukes. How many favors do they get ? /nt jakeXT May 2015 #31
So where are sanctions against Saudia Arabia a known terrorist supporter on point May 2015 #35
So we're allowing a nation only slightly less fanatic than ISIS and the Taliban to go nuclear? Xithras May 2015 #38
Another nation in the nuclear club. Beauregard May 2015 #46
people should be more worried about this than Iran getting a nuke yurbud May 2015 #48
If true, it may mean the stationing of Russian nuclear missiles in Iran. roamer65 May 2015 #50
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»US officials: 'Saudis set...»Reply #49