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Fred Sanders This message was self-deleted by its author.

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Early results: No vote takes early lead [View all] brooklynite Jul 2015 OP

The Greek people align with Tsipras and reject EU-imposed austerity. Now what? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #1

Tsipras wants a "No" vote to strengthen his hand, but not leave the Euro. He suggested he would resign otherwise. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #2

A "Nai" means "Do whatever the EU/IMF demands". The opposite of what he wants. jeff47 Jul 2015 #4

They're gonna get hurt either way. jeff47 Jul 2015 #3

Right they are screwed either way Cryptoad Jul 2015 #7

+1 daleanime Jul 2015 #39

Edit: 20% in: Nai 40%, Oxi 60. Might be all over.... Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #5

Tsipras wants Oxi Depaysement Jul 2015 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #9

"Nai" does not mean "No"!!! brooklynite Jul 2015 #10

I will let others speak about this: Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #14

You are mistaken. Tsipras definitely wants OXI. n/t RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #11

No you are wrong Depaysement Jul 2015 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #19

Apologies. I am wrong about the wording. Rejecting the creditor bailout is what the government wanted. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #21

No need to apologize Depaysement Jul 2015 #23

Especially with the false equivalents in Greek Warpy Jul 2015 #27

Seems we could use "yes" and "no" for English consumption. libdem4life Jul 2015 #40

Then the pictures out of Greece wouldn't make any sense Warpy Jul 2015 #43

Well, someone is always explaining the pictures anyway...could be in the title of the post, etc. libdem4life Jul 2015 #48

I think there should be indictments against lets say................ turbinetree Jul 2015 #6

You have it right. Think 2008 all over again. Good ole credit default swaps. LiberalArkie Jul 2015 #13

35% counted, 61% no Jeff Murdoch Jul 2015 #12

This is a faceoff between the banks and the public that I hope to see repeated. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #15

It's likely that several banks will collapse because of lack of funds... brooklynite Jul 2015 #16

This vote is all about the people over the almighty Euro. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #20

And if some people lose their life savings and pensions? Well it's all for the greater good... brooklynite Jul 2015 #22

LOL! This is all about KEEPING their pensions. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #24

...with what money? brooklynite Jul 2015 #25

They could go back to the drachma but probably won't have to.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #26

If Greece defaults then nobody will extend it credit brooklynite Jul 2015 #28

It's the way it was done prior to 2002. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #31

Uh, nobody will extend it credit already. jeff47 Jul 2015 #49

That would guarantee Greece leaving the Euro. geek tragedy Jul 2015 #29

That's the fear from the 1%. Others might go off the Euro too. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #33

Greece's government promised the people geek tragedy Jul 2015 #37

That much is true. That is now in the EU's and creditors court...Drachma or Euro? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #41

He can with a mandate from the masses.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #45

Not really. He can't force foreigners to lend geek tragedy Jul 2015 #61

That assumes they are going to stay in debt. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #64

They will remain in debt. They can refuse to pay it but geek tragedy Jul 2015 #67

The economic model today is every country in the world is in debt..... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #68

Which ones are defaulting? geek tragedy Jul 2015 #69

This isn't a default. Watch. The EU will restructure the debt and write off a lot.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #70

Depends on who they owe. This isn't Westeros and the Iron Bank. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #71

Yep. The Euro is a physical banknote, the current Greek currency. No more Euro banknotes or deposits, no currency, no economy. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #34

In order to keep Greece in the Euro, they geek tragedy Jul 2015 #42

Yep. It is that or bye-bye to all the Euro-denominated Greek loans... Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #44

Back when Greece joined the EU the right-wing government at the time LIED about it's finances.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #72

A default or a "Grexit" will completely erase all public pensions. cheapdate Jul 2015 #32

Except Greece could pay with fresh, new drachmas, good only in Greece. Not going to be easy...but enslavement is no fun either. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #35

Yes. cheapdate Jul 2015 #36

Pieces of paper are worth paper value. It is the actual equaivalent of, say, gold that backs it up libdem4life Jul 2015 #46

Countries do not back up their currencies with gold, all but one....Ft. Knox is likely empty. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #47

Not just gold, but precious metals just the same. About the gold, probably right. But that plays libdem4life Jul 2015 #51

Your position was abandoned in the 1930s. jeff47 Jul 2015 #52

It's not a position. And it was Nixon who took us off the gold standard in 1971. Then inflation libdem4life Jul 2015 #55

Again, we de-facto abandoned it in the 1930s. jeff47 Jul 2015 #56

No I just used Foreign debt as an example. And $50,000 per family is quite a hit...before credit libdem4life Jul 2015 #58

It has always been smoke, mirrors and accounting tricks. jeff47 Jul 2015 #65

That's if you let the banks make the rules.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #38

The problem is a lack of money, not rules. cheapdate Jul 2015 #57

This isn't like household expenses. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #59

Absolutely not. Domestic finances are not the same as a sovereign state's finances. cheapdate Jul 2015 #60

That argument doesn't work since Greece isn't a third world country..... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #63

Not sure what you mean that the "argument doesn't work". cheapdate Jul 2015 #66

Make no mistake. What comes next for the Greeks.... Adrahil Jul 2015 #62

Thanks Brook for posting this fasttense Jul 2015 #18

Hopefully we don't have to bail out the big banks for this MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #30

The EU already did. The Greek debt crisis was created by bailing out banks. jeff47 Jul 2015 #53

So, the Greek people want the Euro deal? So much confusion in here. But Nai is Yes. Oxi is No. freshwest Jul 2015 #50

No. You're reading this backwards. jeff47 Jul 2015 #54

Hi! Was the bailout accepted or not? n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #73