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Igel

(37,627 posts)

91. One behavior,

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:39 PM

Jul 2015

two complementary reasons given for it. One indicts those we don't like and the other excuses it among those we do like.

Perhaps the explanation for requiring two reasons lies not so much in Greece as in our attitudes.

It's not paying taxes to invaders that was the problem. It was paying taxes when you didn't see that it was your place. The government doesn't do what you like, doesn't represent you, even oppresses you and takes more than its share, so you don't buy into it.

Notice, that holds for the top 1% and the bottom 20%. One behavior on the part of humans, one unifying set of self-justifications for it. The problem is we have trouble thinking of those not with us as being really human. They're cold, distant, manipulative, immoral, uncaring, etc., etc.--unlike us.

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Greeks defy Europe with overwhelming 'No' to bailout referendum [View all] bemildred Jul 2015 OP

Greece defiantly rejects Europe's bailout offer, Athens says bemildred Jul 2015 #1

Greece votes No bemildred Jul 2015 #2

I Salute the People of Greece! No to Austerity! Warren Stupidity Jul 2015 #3

The Latest: Thousands of Greek 'no' supporters celebrate bemildred Jul 2015 #4

Hopefully the creditors will come back with a more sustainable aid package now. nt SunSeeker Jul 2015 #5

Quite the opposite Morganfleeman Jul 2015 #11

Exactly... sendero Jul 2015 #51

To discourage Spain, Portugal, Italy? Then it is economic terrorism. candelista Jul 2015 #98

This is exactly what he meant, yes. Ghost Dog Jul 2015 #110

Isn't that what they used to call Yupster Jul 2015 #19

I don't think Greeks have "shown no willingness to ever pay it back." SunSeeker Jul 2015 #24

If they continue to spend more than they take in year after year Yupster Jul 2015 #28

Which is why they should quit taking bailouts that depress their economy and increase their debt, Vincardog Jul 2015 #30

I agree Yupster Jul 2015 #37

Well if they jail the biggest Banksters to set an example; maybe they will get it right. Vincardog Jul 2015 #41

how would that help? AllTooEasy Jul 2015 #63

People don't seem to understand that..... Historic NY Jul 2015 #67

It seems that their 1% don't feel like they have to pay taxes, either which is one of the reasons Cleita Jul 2015 #72

Thats the other part of the thing which is referred to as "sport" in Greece eveyone is in on it..... Historic NY Jul 2015 #80

Yeah, I know, but that's because of centuries of being robbed in taxation by various invaders Cleita Jul 2015 #81

One behavior, Igel Jul 2015 #91

The Banksters from ShittyBank helped them hide debt to enter the ECM. The Banksters forecd them Vincardog Jul 2015 #102

I heard it was Goldman Sacks. OnlinePoker Jul 2015 #107

Right it was Goldman. The point is it was the Banksters who created and profited from the situation Vincardog Jul 2015 #116

The reason they're taking in less and less is austerity is crashing their economy. nt SunSeeker Jul 2015 #31

So what crashed their economy before? Igel Jul 2015 #92

you don't understand the old maxim passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #32

He who hesitates is lost, but look before you leap Yupster Jul 2015 #42

But this isn't a business passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #46

That's fine, but if you borrow Yupster Jul 2015 #56

Humanitarian aid passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #61

I'm all for charity Yupster Jul 2015 #87

Use Iceland as your key as to what happens. safeinOhio Jul 2015 #65

Iceland doesnt or atleast it didnt recommend that Greece follow its example. cstanleytech Jul 2015 #96

They imposed austerity measures, but the economy shrank even more. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #40

Austerity is always going to hurt Yupster Jul 2015 #44

I agree to a point passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #49

The debt was run up by a corrupt government. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #52

I think we agree Yupster Jul 2015 #54

I agree. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #57

The Greek austerity can be compared to a alcoholic father who ran up $100K in credit card debt meow2u3 Jul 2015 #64

Sounds like they need to declare bankruptcy Yupster Jul 2015 #88

"Austerity" is people without medicine, heat -to pay off Banksters bread_and_roses Jul 2015 #115

the 2008 crisis caused us all problems. by 2010 Greece needed help magical thyme Jul 2015 #48

you said it passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #50

Yep. Third paragraph, second sentence...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2015 #83

Debt that cannot be repaid.. sendero Jul 2015 #53

in another pardigm... AllTooEasy Jul 2015 #68

This whole situation.. sendero Jul 2015 #75

True to a point but the debt does not need to grow much bigger itself if the lenders would agree to cstanleytech Jul 2015 #93

To keep their own banks solvent PaulaFarrell Jul 2015 #108

Unfortunately, now they will murder Greece economically, Kelvin Mace Jul 2015 #27

Maybe. But I bet not. Adrahil Jul 2015 #97

I thought that Tsipras pretty much already gave into the EU demands goldent Jul 2015 #105

I'll bet people and politicians in Italy, Spain, Portugal are paying close attention. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #6

They are, but Greece doesn't have the money to pay for imports Yo_Mama Jul 2015 #18

They are. Jeff Murdoch Jul 2015 #60

That may not send the message they want. bemildred Jul 2015 #66

I can't help but note the difference. Deny and Shred Jul 2015 #69

Who thinks Italy, Spain, Portugal are anywhere close to the Greek situation? goldent Jul 2015 #103

Ireland, Spain, Portugal TACFIRE13 Jul 2015 #7

But, but, but... SoapBox Jul 2015 #8

Not sure what you're talking about Morganfleeman Jul 2015 #9

The poor bankers already got their money. That's why Greece is in debt jeff47 Jul 2015 #10

No Greece got the banker's money that's what the debt was. The banks got paid back by the Troika. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #12

Nope. The Troika lent money to Greece to pay back European banks. jeff47 Jul 2015 #14

Greece was in debt to the bankers now they're in debt to the Troika, effectively the Troika PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #20

Pay the bondholders and CEOs Deny and Shred Jul 2015 #76

We have to think of the suffering hedge funders and banks. Greece may have forgiven Germany's WW2 LiberalArkie Jul 2015 #25

Germany's Gabriel says Tsipras has torn down last bridge of compromise Bosonic Jul 2015 #13

Greece may have to reinvent civilization...yet again. libdem4life Jul 2015 #15

Maybe Russia will be the cavalry Yupster Jul 2015 #21

It's definitely been mentioned...maybe not rescue, but heavily influence and encourage the other libdem4life Jul 2015 #26

Maybe they can trade port rights Yupster Jul 2015 #29

Interesting thought. That would also result in Russians living in Greece, as ports always do...kind libdem4life Jul 2015 #33

Russians are actually closer in culture to Greeks as the Russians derived much of Cleita Jul 2015 #82

That's true. The world is changing...I read the book Russka by Edward Rutherford...an amazing libdem4life Jul 2015 #84

That's what it's called, "Russka"? Cleita Jul 2015 #86

They had that arrangement Duckhunter935 Jul 2015 #106

Wasn't part of the deal with the Troika that Greece Could Not work out a gas pipeline Hestia Jul 2015 #89

It seems that the other members sadoldgirl Jul 2015 #16

It is a great day for the idea that a people can determine their own fate, by voting. bemildred Jul 2015 #17

Guts and backbone galore! CountAllVotes Jul 2015 #22

Good Luck with That! AllTooEasy Jul 2015 #79

Unless you believe in a dictatorship of the bankers......... socialist_n_TN Jul 2015 #85

Your analysis has merit. candelista Jul 2015 #100

"Working people all over Europe need to support the Greek struggle"...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2015 #101

I might say good, but where do they go from here? Cleita Jul 2015 #23

6 years of austerity has only made matters worse bluestateguy Jul 2015 #34

It never does. It has failed everywhere it has been tried. n/t Cleita Jul 2015 #73

They may have been better off to skip the voluntary austerity and go backrupt a few years back. goldent Jul 2015 #104

The BBC is going nuts with negative reaction � no pretense of objectivity. snot Jul 2015 #35

Yeah, hyperbole rules the day. bemildred Jul 2015 #38

Isn't a large part of the problem the interest on the loans? Alameda Jul 2015 #36

Biggest mistake the Germans made DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #39

I think Germany has made bigger mistakes than this Yupster Jul 2015 #47

And, electing Hitler president by over 90% of the vote! scscholar Jul 2015 #58

Well if one thing is going to make Merkel open her checkbook, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #43

Ooof DJ13 Jul 2015 #45

The Latest: Tsipras Thanks Greeks for Making 'Brave Choice' bemildred Jul 2015 #55

If all debtors followed suit and just said "No," it would turn the world upside down. leveymg Jul 2015 #59

Well I think some debts should be paid and some should not. bemildred Jul 2015 #62

Not really Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #109

The Latest: Euro falls sharply on Greece referendum results bemildred Jul 2015 #70

PM Tsipras on NO Vote Win: Greece Returns to Negotiations Tomorrow bemildred Jul 2015 #71

So much for the polls that said it was too close to call. malthaussen Jul 2015 #74

I don't think they care about accuracy all that much. bemildred Jul 2015 #78

All I know is, I would like to have a job as a pundit. malthaussen Jul 2015 #111

Yeah, I could do that. bemildred Jul 2015 #112

In the final analysis... malthaussen Jul 2015 #113

Yah. And I notice who is making the news, and who is doing the catching up. nt bemildred Jul 2015 #114

Now Europe Must Decide Whether to Make an Example of Greece bemildred Jul 2015 #77

the big question is what does greece and europe do now rdking647 Jul 2015 #90

Seems like they need to renege on their debts Yupster Jul 2015 #94

that is the probable route rdking647 Jul 2015 #95

The austerity program was ill conceived Babel_17 Jul 2015 #99

This can be a disaster DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #117