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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
102. Lets get the KNOWN facts straight here, no one is saying the Dentist knew of use of a truck...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 09:11 AM
Jul 2015

All of the admitted facts so far is that the guide the Dentist hired so he could hunt a Lion with a Bow and Arrow was the one that used a truck to draw in the lion from inside the National Park to a private farm where hunting was permitted. Now, this is a large farm, one of the farms Mugabe has been slowly breaking up, but are also the main source of exports out of the country (and why so many still survive). One of the sources of income for such large farms is permitting lion hunting.

Now, the farm did NOT have a permit to permit a lion hunt, but it appears they did not tell that to the dentist. The farm did have permits to permit other types of hunts, and I suspect they sold this lion hunt to the dentist knowing they did not have a permit for the lion hunt and did not care of they had a permit or not, the money was what the owner of the farm wanted.

Another fact ignored in this tread is the "Guides" who used a dead animal to lure the lion out of the National Park to the private farm, did this at night and again no one is saying the Dentist knew anything about that maneuver.

You may dislike the fact that this Dentist killed a lion, a well known lion, and he may have wanted to kill a lion so bad that he ignored things that should have put him on notice that something was wrong, but nothing has come out, yet, that indicates he did anything illegal himself.

I suspect the farm owner told his employees (the hunting guides) to get a lion for his paying guest to hunt. I suspect the farm owner KNEW where the guides were going to get the lion and how, but refused to ask any questions for if the guides told the farm owner of they plans, by law the farm owner would have had to stop the guides.

That morning the Dentist flew into the country and took up residence with the Farm owner. The Dentist asked to make sure all the permits had been taken care of and the Farm Owner said it was. The Dentist did not ask to see the permits or even check with the Government office that covers such hunts (Which may have been deliberate on his part, but when you are PAYING to stay some place, you assume the person you are paying will take care of such details, like when you go into a Hotel Room, you can assume there will be a bed in the room you just paid for AND the hotel meets local fire and health codes).

Thus I will assume, until I see evidence to the contrary, that the Dentist knew nothing of the illegal activities being used to get him a lion. As I said, the Dentist flew in, unloaded his bow and arrow, went to sleep, was awaken the next morning being told by his guides they had found a lion for him to kill. The Dentist took his bow and arrow and guided by the guides, went up to the lion and shot a arrow, but did not kill Cecil. A day and half later (the 40 hours later report), one of the Guides, caught up with the wounded lion and finished him off with a rifle.

That is roughly all of the facts we know at the present time OR facts we can assume based on past practices of the locals and past hunters in the area (i.e. flying in and being told by guides a lion had been found). We also know the lion was lured out of the National Park by the Guides, for that is apparently what they told the Police when they were arrested. No one is saying that the Guides or the Farm Owner told the Dentist of their illegal acts. Thus the Dentist MAY have been an innocent person who relied on the people he paid that what they were doing was legal.

This SEEMS to be the position of the local police. They are acting like the criminals were the guides and the farm owner NOT the dentist, for the police have NOT asked for the extradition of the dentist. On the other hand the Police do have questions for the Dentist for the Police wants to know what the Dentist actually knew. Hunting Lions is legal in that country, provided you go through a licensed guide who knows the rules. The Farm Owner and his employees (the Guides), knew or should have known these rules, the Dentist would not have. The Farm owner had a licensed to permit hunting of lions on his farm. and thus knew the rules. That is NOT true of the Dentist, whose presence in the country may be counted in days not years.

Lets be honest, the farm owner saw $50,000 for his personal use. That $50,000 was to cover all permits, lodging and clean up for the hunt. The Farm Owner probably made a promise of a refund if the Dentist did not bag a lion, and did NOT want to pay that refund. It also appears the farm owner DID NOT have a permit for such a lion hunt, and I suspect he did not for either it had been refused, or the farm owner pocketed the money for the permit for his own use (Thus the massive investigation and the charges being brought against the farm owner).

You may dislike the fact that the Dentist killed a lion, you may dislike the idea of lion hunting, but I have NOT seen anything that indicates the Dentist did anything illegal himself.

Side note: The Dentist may not be as innocent as I made him above, for the Dentist may have wanted to "bag" a lion so much that he selected a guide who guaranteed him a lion, while other more respectable hunting guides refuse to make such a promise (i.e. they would TRY to get him a legal lion, but if the lions refuse to cooperate the dentist still would have to pay the bill). One such guide in the early 1900s did that to Theodore Roosevelt, but TR refused to "Take" the bear, for TR said that was NOT hunting.



http://www.nps.gov/thrb/learn/historyculture/storyofteddybear.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_bear

Just pointing out the facts, as we known them TODAY, do not support any allegation that the Dentist acted illegally, but it is the beginning of the investigation and new facts may come out.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

He needs to be found and turned over to Robert Mugabe bluestateguy Jul 2015 #1
That would be fitting. PatrickforO Jul 2015 #87
Ignorance of the law is NO defense from charges of breaking the law. closeupready Jul 2015 #2
He wasn't ignorant of the law. leftyladyfrommo Jul 2015 #5
Indeed. He had a colalr question everything Jul 2015 #10
The lion refused to cooperate jberryhill Jul 2015 #53
This is what will cook him. n/t seafan Jul 2015 #12
Lets get the KNOWN facts straight here, no one is saying the Dentist knew of use of a truck... happyslug Jul 2015 #102
Trophy hunters are scum. Iggo Jul 2015 #107
What assumptions, as to the Dentist, are you objecting to? happyslug Jul 2015 #109
I object that you label your assumptions as known facts. Iggo Jul 2015 #118
For many trophy hunting is considered reprehensible csziggy Jul 2015 #111
This started as an "Ignorance of the Law" sub-thread.... happyslug Jul 2015 #112
Thank you so much for explaining that you are the dictator of this subthread csziggy Jul 2015 #116
For one thing, christx30 Jul 2015 #119
But the burden of proof is on the orginal owner that the stereo is his, happyslug Jul 2015 #120
Well.. christx30 Jul 2015 #124
He wasn't ignorant of the law. 840high Jul 2015 #76
the "great white hunter" becomes the "hunted".... hlthe2b Jul 2015 #3
Perfect analogy Happyhippychick Jul 2015 #4
... Alkene Jul 2015 #17
That's the movie I kept trying to think of. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2015 #26
I was thinking of the film Ghost of Tom Joad Jul 2015 #101
I sincerely hope that he's stalked by fear for the rest of his days. Perhaps snagglepuss Jul 2015 #103
These animals that live on the refuges are used to people being around. Good people. So when jwirr Jul 2015 #6
bet he regrets having all camo luggage HFRN Jul 2015 #7
This man will be found. seafan Jul 2015 #8
"Photograph"? tblue Jul 2015 #89
Photograph/shoot, observe/sight? As originally written by 'Dentist the Menace'... undiegrinder Jul 2015 #98
Paging Dr. Palmer... 2naSalit Jul 2015 #9
Perfect. narnian60 Jul 2015 #19
Agreed. spiderpig Jul 2015 #73
His other "sporting interests" VA_Jill Jul 2015 #11
This guy has a lot of stuff floating in his head and also IMO is unfit to be a dentist. His RKP5637 Jul 2015 #30
With apologies to dentists everywhere... ThoughtCriminal Jul 2015 #37
I would not be surprised in the least to learn he has sadistic leanings. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2015 #38
Thank you so much! dieter Jul 2015 #90
I think I'd prefer JackInGreen Jul 2015 #100
I suspect he went into this profession for the money passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #59
I agree with everything you say so very much!!! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2015 #62
Better run and hide, you worthless piece of shit. TwilightGardener Jul 2015 #13
Typical Republican. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #22
We'll see him running for the R nomination for 2016. Move over Trump, Bush and walker, a RKP5637 Jul 2015 #63
A two million dollar fine and a ten year jail sentence would be appropriate. nt ladjf Jul 2015 #14
Any guess about his politics? Nah, I didn't think so. Faygo Kid Jul 2015 #15
I think someone found that he contributed to Mitt in 2012 on Open Secrets Beaverhausen Jul 2015 #16
GOPers get off on killing animals. AngryDem001 Jul 2015 #43
This is in part what the NRA is protecting. glinda Jul 2015 #56
hope he gets caught, extradited, tried and convicted. rurallib Jul 2015 #18
Fucking coward geomon666 Jul 2015 #20
But Ted Nugent says the whole thing is a lie. tclambert Jul 2015 #21
I knew it shenmue Jul 2015 #29
"Celebrity" is being generous. AngryDem001 Jul 2015 #40
Fuck Nugent. roamer65 Jul 2015 #125
one bow / gun humping hunter coward protecting another Skittles Jul 2015 #126
I hope this POS Betty Jul 2015 #23
He has a felony record here in Wisconsin for poaching a bear. Archae Jul 2015 #24
Hope he's looking over his shoulder for the remainder of his miserable life. frylock Jul 2015 #25
Hiding unlike the animals he force to be out in the open so he could kill them. Gregorian Jul 2015 #27
i look forward to his coming financial woes. pansypoo53219 Jul 2015 #28
That practice should be permanently boarded up and his license yanked. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2015 #31
He needs to be shot... N_E_1 for Tennis Jul 2015 #32
You said exactly what I've been feeling. Still In Wisconsin Jul 2015 #35
Karma's pearly-white, perfectly aligned teeth are biting him in the butt now. And his family as well. Fritz Walter Jul 2015 #33
Just read that the other two culprits in this crime swilton Jul 2015 #34
There should be reverse hunting licenses cosmicone Jul 2015 #36
I support the right to arm bears. ChairmanAgnostic Jul 2015 #39
Maybe we can lure him out of hiding with a new BMW or flashy gold Rolex. Catch him that way LynneSin Jul 2015 #41
he and his pathetically tiny shriveled penis restorefreedom Jul 2015 #42
The bastard tried to destroy the GPS collar that Cecil wore. seafan Jul 2015 #44
Yep, and he supposedly said he didn't know anything was being done that was RKP5637 Jul 2015 #64
He said he didn't know "until the end of the hunt." herding cats Jul 2015 #68
This is great, hope it really happens! RKP5637 Jul 2015 #70
Thanks for that. herding cats Jul 2015 #71
And this guy's a HEALTH CARE PROVIDER??? spiderpig Jul 2015 #74
You're not alone in your feelings. herding cats Jul 2015 #79
"The world's fury is coming for this guy." << Not enough, doesn't solve the problem. MH1 Jul 2015 #97
I hope his life remains miserable for many many years to come Gman Jul 2015 #45
What these rich assholes fail to understand when they commit these murders is hamsterjill Jul 2015 #46
Maybe Corey Knowlton can grant him asylum rocktivity Jul 2015 #47
His business 'disrupted'; hopes to “resume normal operations as soon as possible.” seafan Jul 2015 #48
This asshole really lives in his own little world, doesn't he? frylock Jul 2015 #72
"Only a psychopath would do this" to you I say, Walter. Nightmares of your own beheading will haunt Dont call me Shirley Jul 2015 #49
Dr. Palmer has a criminal record and then some OldRedneck Jul 2015 #50
2009: Walter Palmer settles $127,500 sexual harassment suit involving his receptionist. seafan Jul 2015 #54
+1. Glad he's ruined. Next, a gig on Fox News? Faygo Kid Jul 2015 #58
And this asshole's idea of fishing is going to the fish market and picking up a lobster from the world wide wally Jul 2015 #51
That fake veneer rictus grin of that POS makes me sick. That lion was worth 10 of that catbyte Jul 2015 #52
Mr. Palmer, how about using that $50K to provide free dental care for people in Africa? seafan Jul 2015 #55
You know, doc, one of the psychologists that was paid to help the U.S. be better at torturing lives jtuck004 Jul 2015 #57
Jimmy Kimmel spent 5 min. last night shredding this POS DebbieCDC Jul 2015 #60
UK Independent: $55K was an illegal bribe Palmer paid to his wildlife guides seafan Jul 2015 #61
I'd be happy with him facing a jury of Cecil's peers. nt TBF Jul 2015 #65
and that post wins the internet for today. nt msanthrope Jul 2015 #77
+1 n/t Kermitt Gribble Jul 2015 #104
Marco Island, FL homeowner faces backlash after killing Cecil the lion seafan Jul 2015 #66
Anybody in Marco Island who can see if the lights are on? nt msanthrope Jul 2015 #78
No answer at the door in Marco Island. seafan Jul 2015 #81
I'm still so mad about this... Avalon Sparks Jul 2015 #67
You said everything I'm feeling. spiderpig Jul 2015 #75
Dr "I'm a big man for killing a lion in a canned hunt" Palmer's PR person dumped his ass today. herding cats Jul 2015 #69
terrific! catrose Jul 2015 #83
Yeah, no amount of PR can get around something like this. Unless you're a billionaire like the Kochs PatrickforO Jul 2015 #88
Crazy world Bradical79 Jul 2015 #110
Picture from Imgur: christx30 Jul 2015 #80
more added steve2470 Jul 2015 #85
Florida Senator Marco Rubio just weighed in. seafan Jul 2015 #82
oh, just fuck off, senator. nt restorefreedom Jul 2015 #91
Righto... In Rubio's mind... Helen Borg Jul 2015 #95
I hope the law goes after his friends, family, and coworkers annm4peace Jul 2015 #84
I am not a violent person by any means, but... tex-wyo-dem Jul 2015 #86
whoops, can't seem to find the ol anesthesia, dr. restorefreedom Jul 2015 #92
Protective custody lobodons Jul 2015 #93
Perhaps it's post hoc, but... Helen Borg Jul 2015 #94
Palmer can go fuck himself blackspade Jul 2015 #96
Cecil was a great and zentrum Jul 2015 #99
probably off on another fabulous 200k vacation to slay some other beautiful wild animal. Sunlei Jul 2015 #105
good. it is no less than he deserves. niyad Jul 2015 #106
Anyone else remember the deer scene in "Powder"? undiegrinder Jul 2015 #108
Mr. Macho-Man Health Care Giver is in hiding spiderpig Jul 2015 #113
THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS "SPORT" HUNTING. raven mad Jul 2015 #114
I do believe he probably didn't know it was Cecil Tab Jul 2015 #115
i believe that i read restorefreedom Jul 2015 #117
My, my. A nice little enclave in a very wealthy neighborhood. seafan Jul 2015 #121
Walter Palmer remains on the run. seafan Jul 2015 #122
You want to really punish this bastard? roamer65 Jul 2015 #123
Minn. Star Trib reached Palmer by phone Wednesday. "I'm meeting with my team." seafan Jul 2015 #127
I wonder if they could create an alert system whereby their collars Lodestar Jul 2015 #128
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