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ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)

74. The failure was that of CA politicians afterwards

Reply to Ken Burch (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:41 AM

Dec 2011

What happened was not inevitiable and not soley the cause of Prop 13

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Overturning of Prop. 13 sought in lawsuit (California) [View all] alp227 Dec 2011 OP

Be interesting to see if it works this time around, but I doubt it ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #1

Oh Great, just right after I purchased a home itsrobert Dec 2011 #2

You're not paying your fair share, you ungrateful 1%er slackmaster Dec 2011 #3

You are so wrong. schmice Dec 2011 #6

Sometimes the sarcasm thingy isn't necessary tularetom Dec 2011 #10

Really? schmice Dec 2011 #13

It's mostly only a FAIL Control-Z Dec 2011 #41

psst....slackmaster is a CA residential property owner too Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #12

And you know this how? schmice Dec 2011 #19

I express social consciousness by donating to worthy charities, not by posting on anonymous forums slackmaster Dec 2011 #20

I'm glad it isn't a joking matter then. schmice Dec 2011 #30

This suit wouldn't affect your bloody property taxes, though. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #55

You need to read up on Prop 4 (Gann) ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #65

Then that needs to be challenged, too. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #69

You clearly are not aware how popular they were at the time ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #96

Bans on interracial marriage were once popular, too. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #99

Comparing the proverbial apples and oranges. schmice Dec 2011 #117

the common point is that the things I mentioned were once JUST as popular as Prop. 13 and Prop. 4 Ken Burch Dec 2011 #124

Maybe not, but it might affect everyones' income tax, sales tax, fuel tax, etc. slackmaster Dec 2011 #137

In other words-you got yours. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #160

You've already suggested that I'm a racist because I support Proposition 13. slackmaster Dec 2011 #172

Nothing I was talking about equals anybody taking anything from you "by force of arms". Ken Burch Dec 2011 #174

getting rid of the supermajority requirement wouldn't affect property taxes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #58

Easy there, I was being sarcastic. I have a long track record on DU of being pro-13. slackmaster Dec 2011 #16

thanks for the clarification CountAllVotes Dec 2011 #18

You were just being sarcastic? schmice Dec 2011 #21

The old DU is still up. Feel free to search it or just use Google for my posts on the subject. slackmaster Dec 2011 #23

Maybe later. schmice Dec 2011 #25

95% of the human race has it worse than you. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #56

Not true, but why ruin a good screed with facts ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #66

If those changes hadn't been forced, the problems with the new funding structure would never Ken Burch Dec 2011 #71

The California pols had a responsbility to do the right thing and instead kicked it down the road. ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #94

But there was nothing they COULD do without raising taxes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #98

What makes you so confident about that? ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #104

So what were those alternatives? Ken Burch Dec 2011 #114

agreed schmice Dec 2011 #121

What? Raising the sales tax? That can't be something progressives could support Ken Burch Dec 2011 #169

Really? ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #164

So what, as you see it, was this magical way Ken Burch Dec 2011 #166

"Doing the right thing" was going to have to involve tax hikes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #161

You are so wrong. schmice Dec 2011 #120

So, you have an issue with the way social programs have worked Ken Burch Dec 2011 #162

Maybe inserting emoticons would save trouble too. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #26

I just re-discovered them this morning. There are a bunch of new ones, and they don't always work. slackmaster Dec 2011 #27

I was living in Mission Beach in the sixties WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2011 #59

It wasn't worth the horrible damage it caused. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #62

The damage was done by the pols, not the people who voted for Prop 13 and later prop 4 ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #67

The ONLY way to fix that is to get rid of the supermajority requirement Ken Burch Dec 2011 #68

Once 13 passed, there was NO ALTERNATIVE Ken Burch Dec 2011 #72

The "waste and theft in social programs" thing is just a racist, right-wing meme. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #44

Maybe if you had read all my comments on this thread schmice Dec 2011 #79

I retract the comment on megaprisons then. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #168

Has anyone checked to see if California property taxes are that much lower than JDPriestly Dec 2011 #127

Mill rates of 1% (like California's) aren't all that unusual in other states mainer Dec 2011 #140

The property tax rate sounds reasonable enough in California. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #144

That on percent is the ad valorem rate for state collection. Most CA property owners pay 1.25-1.5% Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #146

Here's a site comparing income, property, and sales taxes state by state mainer Dec 2011 #141

And prop 13 massively increased the tuitition at the UC system, making many campuses Ken Burch Dec 2011 #50

More mistatements ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #73

Even without Prop 209, minority and working-class enrollement was declining in the UC system Ken Burch Dec 2011 #84

You might want to check you stats ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #103

It isn't so much a matter based on race as it is based on economic status. schmice Dec 2011 #113

You haven't offered any alternatives Ken Burch Dec 2011 #102

I have ambivalent feelings. schmice Dec 2011 #109

So you've possibly made a case for forming a third party in Cali Ken Burch Dec 2011 #111

Only served the rich? schmice Dec 2011 #116

The phrase "only served the rich" was in reference Ken Burch Dec 2011 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2011 #11

It is not wrong, but Prop. 13 also roody Dec 2011 #14

I am not a business owner schmice Dec 2011 #22

Are you aware that commercial property taxes can be held down MORE than residential taxes under 13? Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #28

Thank you ! jaysunb Dec 2011 #37

Your father's property tax should be determined by what other people are willing to pay for his home slackmaster Dec 2011 #17

Your dad would have been able to stay in his home anyway Ken Burch Dec 2011 #45

The failure was that of CA politicians afterwards ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #74

It's economic royalism to defend 13. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #51

"So long as a few bitter old white folks, none of whom WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2011 #60

They could have voted for Prop 8, the non-barbaric alternative Ken Burch Dec 2011 #61

That it got no serious traction with the voting populace should be a clue ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #105

It got no serious traction because Howard Jarvis was a bazillionaire loudmouth Ken Burch Dec 2011 #107

It is pretty clear that you were not around when this all happened ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #115

More hyperbole and very few facts ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #75

I'm sorry you feel that way. schmice Dec 2011 #87

You twisted my words there. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #97

Quit with the false memes ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #106

Yeah... Fredge Dec 2011 #57

Prop 13 happened because people were losing their homes because they could not afford the property still_one Dec 2011 #4

Super DITTO! SoapBox Dec 2011 #5

Thank you. schmice Dec 2011 #7

Nothing good that came of 13 could possibly have been worth the damage it did Ken Burch Dec 2011 #46

Nonsense ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #78

Anything that affects state revenue Ken Burch Dec 2011 #82

You are not an economist. schmice Dec 2011 #95

So it was done YOUR way and there's NO money for social services or any of the rest Ken Burch Dec 2011 #100

they could not afford the property taxes AlbertCat Dec 2011 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2011 #15

I was living in California during the Prop. 13 campaign... KansDem Dec 2011 #36

No, it's not just about property taxes. The provision for a supermajority affects all Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #31

Bingo ! jaysunb Dec 2011 #38

Gas and sales taxes are regressive. Property taxes are progressive. closeupready Dec 2011 #29

thanks for that. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #112

"Incentives to businesses" is right-wing code for "break the unions and kill the poor". Ken Burch Dec 2011 #52

There is no analysis in your statements. schmice Dec 2011 #83

Sorry...but everytime somebody says "incentives to businesses" Ken Burch Dec 2011 #89

Prop. 13 happened because of slick marketing by big commercial interests. SunSeeker Dec 2011 #123

It and Prop 4 were supported in large numbers by the voters ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #132

If I'm not mistaken, Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #151

There have been any number of good suggestions over time ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #153

It won't affect you that much. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #48

What good is it for a few bitter old white people to keep their homes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #53

Our taxes have risen every year. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #77

Then the answer would just to have been Ken Burch Dec 2011 #80

I think that maybe the Supreme Court did not allow that. I'm not sure, but I think JDPriestly Dec 2011 #145

California top state income tax 9.3% + 1% millionaire surcharge mainer Dec 2011 #138

But, as long as the supermajority requirement stays in place Ken Burch Dec 2011 #167

True. As I pointed out, we need to raise income taxes. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #178

you might've forgotten about the state DREAM Act alp227 Dec 2011 #154

Actually, Prop 13 INCREASED your property taxes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #54

Prop 13 was passed long before we bought our house. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #85

But your property taxes are much higher than they would have been without 13 Ken Burch Dec 2011 #86

I live in an older, well established community that is being gentrified. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #126

I think it's impossible to say what anyone's present taxes would be in the absence of Prop. 13 slackmaster Dec 2011 #143

Again, more bad information from you. ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #133

Luckily, even if this passed it wouldn't change the property tax provision. Kablooie Dec 2011 #171

The supermajority provision SHOULD be overturned. Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #8

Supermajority schmice Dec 2011 #32

I don't trust them either, but we can't blame them for doing nothing when their hands are tied. Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #33

Washington state has this too KT2000 Dec 2011 #24

narcissistic Californians tedder10 Dec 2011 #34

Did you attend public school here? slackmaster Dec 2011 #35

No. We don't need higher taxes jaysunb Dec 2011 #39

Racism?!?! slackmaster Dec 2011 #40

Of course there was racism Ken Burch Dec 2011 #47

Bingo ! Bango ! Bongo ! n/t jaysunb Dec 2011 #64

More unsupported hyperbole ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #81

That structure couldn't be fixed without the ability to raise taxes Ken Burch Dec 2011 #101

No other way but revenue? ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #108

Sorry Ken, you're waaaay out in left field on this one. I remember the discussion. My parents... slackmaster Dec 2011 #134

Are you quoting from a Republican campaign pamphlet there? Ken Burch Dec 2011 #49

Jerry Brown's alternative property tax measure in '78 would have protected those people too. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #63

Two links for anyone who is interested in real information about the California state budget slackmaster Dec 2011 #139

self-delete Ken Burch Dec 2011 #42

It needs to be overturned, if for no other reason than the fact that Ken Burch Dec 2011 #43

Please lose the false memes that Prop 13 gentrified public higher education in California ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #130

Prop. 13 was a trojan horse sold as saving grandma but it killed her grandkids SunSeeker Dec 2011 #70

Prop 13 saved seniors, weak pols are what hurt their grandchildren ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #88

With the supermajority requirement, it wasn't possible to "do the work" Ken Burch Dec 2011 #91

Revenue, espcially early on was not the issue ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #135

Prop 13 wasn't necessary to save seniors Ken Burch Dec 2011 #93

Interesting slam against the Democrats, working people, the poor, the retired, the people of color ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #136

It wasn't very many poor people voting for 13 Ken Burch Dec 2011 #158

Too bad the facts do not bear out your assumptions ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #163

Full Agreement. I saw Prop 13 ruin my daughter's school. Mojeoux Dec 2011 #155

Your fight is not with Prop 13 or 4, its with the pols who did not do their jobs for several decades ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #156

Indeed. Other than the tiny minority of fixed-income seniors Ken Burch Dec 2011 #159

Again factless hyperbole ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #165

What kind of turnout was there in the election in which Prop. 4 passed? Ken Burch Dec 2011 #170

It takes a 2/3 vote of the legislature to raise taxes, an impossible standard, meanwhile ... kwassa Dec 2011 #76

Initiatives are certainly a mixed blessing ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #90

Initiatives have been a disaster in CA SunSeeker Dec 2011 #122

Tell that to the mountain lions ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #131

Exactly. Gormy Cuss Dec 2011 #147

It also needs real campaign finance reform laws Ken Burch Dec 2011 #92

Much of that is already underway ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #110

What's Underway? All I see is paralysis caused by supermajority requirements. SunSeeker Dec 2011 #119

New regulations are flowing down ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #129

Now that is worth dreaming of- Tumbulu Dec 2011 #118

Excuse me for saying this, but Californians are already highly taxed mainer Dec 2011 #128

I am a Californian who will not vote for any tax increases. Throd Dec 2011 #142

According to some here that makes you a racist 1%er ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #148

Project much? U4ikLefty Dec 2011 #150

Another hit and run poster with nothing to back them up ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #152

It's not as though service levels and low tuition COULD have been maintained after 4 and 13 Ken Burch Dec 2011 #157

At what point does increasing taxes have a negative effect? mainer Dec 2011 #173

The real drain on revenue has been the megaprisons and California's fascist drug laws. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #175

So readjustment of spending priorities might be enough mainer Dec 2011 #176

In the Eighties, perhaps. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #177

Then you're against your state doing anything progressive. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #149

I hope to god it works. The republican minority uses 2/3 req to hold state hostage yurbud Dec 2011 #179