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passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
119. I don't know about Bernie supporters
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:49 PM
Aug 2015

But I do know that many on DU have been raging against Obama's use of drones and killing innocents (especially targeted American citizens).

I believe many people who are upset with Obama may be Bernie supporters...but not all of them.

I personally hate the use of drones, but I prefer them to a boots on the ground war. I don't know if Obama ever had an option to just do nothing in the face of the growing threat of terrorism (ISIL, not so much Al Qaeda)...but he did ramp up the use of drones, resulting in more collateral damage.

I'm not happy about that, but as I said before...what other option did he have? Especially in this fear-filled country full of war mongers.

I'm a pacifist, so I'm against all war and killing, unless done in self-defense. But whose self-defense? Is it OK to watch other innocents be butchered and not come to their assistance when they ask for it? I don't think so.

Did we always make the right choice in choosing who to give aid to? Obviously not, as we actually funded and trained the beginnings of Al Qaeda and possibly ISIL. We seem to make a lot of mistakes. And when innocent people are killed as a result of our mistakes, I really hate it. Collateral damage is always going to happen when people are fighting...no matter how the fighting is done. And I believe Obama has been put in a position where he has tried to suppress terrorism, without all out war or bombing. I don't agree with everything he's done, but I can't really blame him.

I also don't agree with Bernie saying he thinks he can do it better or safer than Obama...unless he means just being more selective and not doing as much of it. There will still be collateral damage and the results will still be more terrorist recruitment. I hate it.

So I don't blame Obama and I'm not happy with Bernie's choice, but I won't blame him either. I wish he could be more like Carter. I don't think Carter would want to use drones. I think until we stop getting involved in terrorism (even defensively) it will continue to grow and haunt us. What will it take to get the leaders of this planet to understand that?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The lesser of two evils. Hulk Aug 2015 #1
I agree TexasBushwhacker Aug 2015 #5
Funny -- a lot of Sanders supporters HATE voting for the "lesser of two evils" brooklynite Aug 2015 #40
Actually it's more of the same in a different package We're against . orpupilofnature57 Aug 2015 #53
Ridiculous Comparison billhicks76 Aug 2015 #74
Sanders gives a chance to fight the rich and save the middle class. EEO Aug 2015 #98
HOW MUCH lesser is the relevant question here. Bonobo Aug 2015 #110
Nuance. Look it up. passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #117
It is not possible to use such weapons of war nd never kill innocents. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2015 #56
Agreed. There is no putting the empire back in the box for good. EEO Aug 2015 #99
Exactly - and it's the way this effort should have been fought WestSeattle2 Aug 2015 #102
I admit I am disappointed in this booley Aug 2015 #2
Exactly so! Demeter Aug 2015 #100
Anything the US does Jeb Bartlet Aug 2015 #109
When a person sees his entire family, or a neighbor''s family, wiped out merely . . . markpkessinger Aug 2015 #151
I agree. things like that just riversedge Aug 2015 #158
AND 'use drones very, very selectively and effectively.' That would be an improvement in my eyes. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #3
"use drones very, very selectively and effectively." Yes. This is what President Obama has said as BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #8
I haven't condemned Obama for there usage. But I do think we have allowed far Live and Learn Aug 2015 #12
I don't know that. I would need to look up your posting history to be certain. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #16
One of those links is actually sticking up for Obama. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #24
Then it is a given that if Clinton also says she will not end the drone program there will be Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #42
'exact same stance, same as Obama?' I am not sure what you mean by that. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #52
Thanks. You did understand what I meant. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #54
But the resulting comments, aren't. That's why I offered it in my post. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #45
You keep failing to address the fact that Bernie is implying that he will use them wiser in order Live and Learn Aug 2015 #48
"that Bernie is implying that he will use them wiser" You have got to be kidding me. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #58
Yes, I believe that he will use them more prudently. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #66
"Your obsession and complete undeserved disdain for Bernie" You're mistaken. I hold no obsession nor BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #91
Then why don't you just leave Sanders name out of it? Live and Learn Aug 2015 #124
I answered that in my post - documented FACTS matter to me. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #138
I can assure you I am even more frustrated than you are. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #140
"Where's the outrage now? All I hear is...silence." sheshe2 Aug 2015 #112
It's beginning to appear that way, she. eom BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #141
That's a politician statement he's being a hypocrite on this issue and it's going to be bigdarryl Aug 2015 #162
Drones were the issue until Bernie came out for them BainsBane Aug 2015 #59
No they weren't. Just saying so doesn't make it true. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #67
I don't know about Bernie supporters passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #119
Yes, you're absolutely right, BB.. Drones are/were a Big Issue with so many BS supporters.. but, now Cha Aug 2015 #79
Uhm kenfrequed Aug 2015 #86
No one believes you'll support Hillary in the GE anyway. okasha Aug 2015 #113
That is a despicable post. You have no idea what the poster will do in the GE. nt Live and Learn Aug 2015 #122
+1 markpkessinger Aug 2015 #149
That is Garbage kenfrequed Aug 2015 #156
Well said. TY It is hard to believe some of the crap being spewn around here Live and Learn Aug 2015 #121
Here's another, related matter of interezt. okasha Aug 2015 #80
Not being a co-sponsor is now back-pedaling? Live and Learn Aug 2015 #123
Co-sponsoring it the first time was Not Good Enough Bernie. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #147
Yeah, BlueCali.. so many BS supporters have condemned President Obama for "drones" and now that Cha Aug 2015 #76
Yep. You and I still bear the scars of their wrath when we tried to defend the president. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #89
Yes, we've been here the whole time supporting President Obama & seeing the too numerous Cha Aug 2015 #90
There was a point when I had left DU because of the anti-Obama sentiment raging through each BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #94
Yes, the uglyness directed at President Obama was extreme.. I left for 2 years in 2010.. Cha Aug 2015 #96
I didn't know that, Cha. Wow. Two years. I think I'd been gone once about that long, too, BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #143
I left for about a year or so shortly after the election because he was getting lambasted... George II Aug 2015 #103
Thanks for the links. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #116
My hypocrisy meter just went off the scales on this one. leftofcool Aug 2015 #159
You might have noticed that I have been one to defend Obama on most occassions. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #129
No, I haven't. And if that's the case, the shoe doesn't fit, does it? BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #134
I see nothing fair about you hurting Bernie or his supporters Live and Learn Aug 2015 #135
I'm doing neither. Criticize and question Sanders? Absolutely. Hurting him? Impossible. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #139
You haven't been critizing and questioning Sanders. You have been doing it to his supporters. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #142
You haven't read many of posts, have you? BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #144
I have read many of your posts in the past. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #145
You know what is really funny about those links? Live and Learn Aug 2015 #132
I am really sorry to see you taking part in this unfair attack on Bernie and his supporters. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #126
You're a Big Disappointment.. You have to learn to Read.. this is about BS supporters who have been Cha Aug 2015 #127
You do realize that there is a big difference between Live and Learn Aug 2015 #130
I am a Sanders supporter, and I believe that 'targeting killing' RiverNoord Aug 2015 #83
I'm with you on this. alarimer Aug 2015 #173
This Sanders supporter will be every bit as critical of a Sanders drone program as he was . . . markpkessinger Aug 2015 #155
Congratulations! With you that makes two that I've been able to tally so far. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #165
I think you may be improperly assuming those who are equivocating in this thread , , , markpkessinger Aug 2015 #172
Sometimes the use of drones may be an alternative to all-out war. Raymondo22 Aug 2015 #163
...and look ...I can find out about Lindsay Lohan from the same news source. Excellent! L0oniX Aug 2015 #4
No pics? HubertHeaver Aug 2015 #6
who needs pics when Lilo posts THE VIDEO HERSELF! (and then deletes it right afterwords -natch..) big_dog Aug 2015 #29
I know! Just look at a few of the interesting news articles on that site.... DonViejo Aug 2015 #25
We could spend all day on that site ...and maybe some do. L0oniX Aug 2015 #26
Lindsay Lohan Claims She Was Drugged left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #63
Is she voting for Bernie? If not then obviously she needs to go back to rehab. L0oniX Aug 2015 #64
did Lilo have a selfie stick while she was filiming herself dancing? big_dog Aug 2015 #170
I don't see the use of drones going away. I agree with evaluating glinda Aug 2015 #7
Those cows are already 'out of the barn' and their is no turning back now. Protect the civilians is Purveyor Aug 2015 #9
+1 How could he possiblty say he wouldn't use them when every country that can will be using them? Live and Learn Aug 2015 #70
Bummer. Drones are quickly spiraling out of control. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #10
Hopefully he'll at least take it under serious review Scootaloo Aug 2015 #11
Got it. Obama droning - bad. Bernie droning - "better." SunSeeker Aug 2015 #13
I do not recall saying this. It's not anywhere in my post Scootaloo Aug 2015 #17
LOL See your post #11 above. SunSeeker Aug 2015 #30
Is Barack Obama running for a third term, SunSeeker? Scootaloo Aug 2015 #33
No, this is LBN, not GDP. SunSeeker Aug 2015 #35
I think Sanders has the superior stance out of the 2016 candidates Scootaloo Aug 2015 #39
No teeth pulling without anesthesia! n/t freshwest Aug 2015 #51
Nobody ever condemned using drones. It was using drones on civilians that upset people. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #20
That's it. The double standard in a nutshell!! rury Aug 2015 #22
Exactly. Double standard...or something else? BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #34
One doesn't have to be a canine to hear THAT whistle. n/t Scootaloo Aug 2015 #41
So stating documented facts are now considered canine whistles by Sanders supporters BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #47
No, but the insinuation that Sanders is more loyal to Israel than to his own country certainly is Scootaloo Aug 2015 #49
+1 Good catch. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #148
No one person is perfect to all folks on all the political issues....as some folks have said. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #46
That is good. It would be foolish to claim to want to end the use of drones. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #14
Best comment in the thread stopwastingmymoney Aug 2015 #111
Drones ? Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #15
prototypes now in the works for the Trump mobile 2016! big_dog Aug 2015 #36
? Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #61
how about the 2016 Trump H3 big_dog Aug 2015 #171
Too boxie ! Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #174
Extra judicial murder cpwm17 Aug 2015 #18
I am very disappointed to hear this about Bernie Sanders... uriel1972 Aug 2015 #65
It Would Be Much, Much Worse Under Trump Or HRC - And It Is Coming To Our Shores Soon cantbeserious Aug 2015 #19
Bottom line. okasha Aug 2015 #21
Nope, bottom line is Sanders is not going to take away a weapon that can save lives. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #28
and you think Hillary will? Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #43
Irrelevant. okasha Aug 2015 #73
You Gotta Be Kidding billhicks76 Aug 2015 #75
Not in the slightest. okasha Aug 2015 #82
Right... kenfrequed Aug 2015 #87
I think Bernie supportees should be more realistic okasha Aug 2015 #92
I disagree with Bernie on this. Martin Eden Aug 2015 #23
Which killings are judicial on any battlefield? The hangings after the war crimes trials, yes. But 24601 Aug 2015 #37
What battlefield, in what war? Martin Eden Aug 2015 #55
Drones are operated by the military . .. PosterChild Aug 2015 #97
Do you understand the implications of that statement? Martin Eden Aug 2015 #107
No, it means that... PosterChild Aug 2015 #114
The ethical distinction is not in the weapon. Martin Eden Aug 2015 #118
Thanks for the clarification . ... PosterChild Aug 2015 #146
Your analogy doesn't apply Martin Eden Aug 2015 #150
In actual fact, PosterChild Aug 2015 #186
Judged by the admistration, or judged by a court of law? Martin Eden Sep 2015 #188
And in the case of... PosterChild Sep 2015 #189
You're the one who insisted the drone operation was a military operation Martin Eden Sep 2015 #192
That is a thoroughly bogus analogy markpkessinger Aug 2015 #169
Since you recognize .... PosterChild Aug 2015 #185
"Imminent," not "immanent," which has a very different meaning markpkessinger Aug 2015 #187
Here is a link to the . .. PosterChild Sep 2015 #191
Here is a link... PosterChild Sep 2015 #190
How about when said 'enemy combatant' is a U.S. citizen, along with his 15-year-old son? markpkessinger Aug 2015 #167
According to the Bush Doctrine, which has been continued and expanded upon Maedhros Aug 2015 #179
The Bush Doctrine of "preemptive war" is the concept applied to Iraq Martin Eden Aug 2015 #182
Please edit this to be within the 4 paragraph limit, not 9 paragraphs uppityperson Aug 2015 #27
LOL. So, extrapolating a single quote undermines Bernie's support! PSPS Aug 2015 #31
great comment. I agree that Karma13612 Aug 2015 #71
False Equivalences By Some Here Are Astounding billhicks76 Aug 2015 #77
Too true. kenfrequed Aug 2015 #88
And so it begins.. VanillaRhapsody Aug 2015 #32
+1. Hoyt Aug 2015 #38
yes, exactly. R B Garr Aug 2015 #128
This will be interesting. JoePhilly Aug 2015 #152
Out of sight truthisfreedom Aug 2015 #44
A somewhat nuanced view of drones use but.... blackspade Aug 2015 #50
I have no issue with this. Drones are just another weapon in the arsenal. BlueEye Aug 2015 #57
ABC news commenting Bluebrick Aug 2015 #60
no clue - and welcome to DU! NRaleighLiberal Aug 2015 #62
Speaking poorly of the news media is my guess. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #68
You should feel honored. Look what they did to Phil Donahue, Dixie Chicks and Bill Maher. L0oniX Aug 2015 #69
Uh, ya, you are in the right place. ! Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #72
The problem with ANY use of drones is when you can kill without ANY repercussion or risk randys1 Aug 2015 #78
Personally .... PosterChild Aug 2015 #115
Really? Who is it you want them to be killing with the drones? randys1 Aug 2015 #168
He lives in the real world. nt geek tragedy Aug 2015 #81
He would probably use it a hell of a lot less kenfrequed Aug 2015 #84
He has said as much before. salib Aug 2015 #85
Good..... It's an effective tool.. 4bucksagallon Aug 2015 #93
We will not have a candidate who rejects the use of drones. Clinton also supports it. totodeinhere Aug 2015 #95
Since I never dissed the POTUS on this sadoldgirl Aug 2015 #101
Wait, so expressing disagreement with the President on this issue is "dissing" him? n/t markpkessinger Aug 2015 #166
Wow, this is a surprise. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #104
Uh Huh underthematrix Aug 2015 #105
I'm fine with it. retrowire Aug 2015 #106
Guess that means Hilary supporters have one less reason to call him a "moonbat". nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #108
I'm sure you can point to someone who has? brooklynite Aug 2015 #154
Less drones is what America needs right now-IMO. NYCButterfinger Aug 2015 #120
The majority on this board said it wasn't OK for President Obama to use targeted drones Cha Aug 2015 #125
Probably for the best. We can't just all of a sudden beat our swords into plowshares, even though PatrickforO Aug 2015 #131
+1 nt Live and Learn Aug 2015 #133
An important reality check for the Bernie supporters PBass Aug 2015 #136
Not really. As you say, it's just your own 'suspicions' about 'unrealistic fantasies'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #157
"pretty much every President moves to the center after taking office" Martin Eden Aug 2015 #183
Was hoping he was better than that. Jappleseed Aug 2015 #137
The MIC got to Bernie???? JoePhilly Aug 2015 #153
I don't see much of a problem with this at this time. Xyzse Aug 2015 #160
Isn't this HYPERCRITICAL!! bigdarryl Aug 2015 #161
I am a Sanders supporter; I have no problem criticizing his stance on this issue markpkessinger Aug 2015 #175
I think that is a naive postition. malthaussen Aug 2015 #164
Good luck with that HassleCat Aug 2015 #176
Drones are the worst form of weapon, except for all of the others Politicub Aug 2015 #177
The real hypocrisy in this thread . . . markpkessinger Aug 2015 #178
I find Sanders' stated position on drones to be very disturbing and disappointing. Koinos Aug 2015 #180
Drone technology is not the problem - the rules of engagement are. Maedhros Aug 2015 #181
I said before I didn't disagree with Sanders on anything... joshcryer Aug 2015 #184
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