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happyslug

(14,779 posts)

144. If they need a few drinks to fly, they should NOT be flying

Tue Sep 8, 2015, 12:12 PM

Sep 2015

When I have run across someone who says he or she needs a few drinks to so something, you are talking about an alcoholic who is the type that will cause problems. Given that history, if they need a few drinks to get on a plane, I do not want to be on that same plane. As to the airlines, unless the FAA makes it a rule, the Airlines will NOT do it (that is why the FAA made it a rule NOT to permit smoking, the Airlines refused to do it themselves).

I am sorry, I should not have to ask around for an airline that forbids drinking, when drinking has been a problem, a problem I want to avoid. I should NOT be forced to have to deal with a problem I make an effort to avoid. I do not stop people from drinking, they can do so if they want, but I also have the right to avoid such people and activities when I want to avoid them. Those two rights come into conflict when it comes to Alcohol on planes and in such cases my right to avoid drunks should overcome the right of someone else to get drunk. If they need that drink, go to a bar not a plane.

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Muslim flight attendant suspended for not serving alcohol [View all] Judi Lynn Sep 2015 OP

Why should another attendent have to take on extra duties with no increase in pay? NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #1

Good. She's allowed to refuse to drink it. Warpy Sep 2015 #2

Fundie flight attendant complains and the Fundie airline bosses go with the Fundie whining? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #3

A little unfair to label her a fundie, no? EDIT: Misread Fred's, but leaving up. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #14

I was talking about the employee that complained about the one asking for a religious accommodation. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #15

I owe you an apology. Misread your post. A lot of anti-Muslim piling-on in this thread. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #22

Yes...blissful ignorance is rampant about the law and the false equivalency to the elected public official. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #23

I've been in the position of being an employer needing to accommodate. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #25

Exactly. No one was complaining except this one fundamentalist Christian weaned on Fox no doubt. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #27

Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! longship Sep 2015 #103

DRoseDars deserves the credit, his sticking to the principle of law is the winning argument. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #104

Indeed! DRoseDars! longship Sep 2015 #108

I deserve no credit, silly, but t/y. To think, I got involved because I was dumb... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #109

It's amazing others couldn't see your points immediately, Fred Sanders. Judi Lynn Sep 2015 #151

I realize accusing others of being right wingers is a lot easier than accepting that others have... FrodosPet Sep 2015 #156

I want a job as a bartender FrodosPet Sep 2015 #123

See post 151 and keep learning. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #152

Can't speak about others, but I am not anti-Islam. I am anti-lazy. FrodosPet Sep 2015 #153

"Reasonable religious accomodation" is a technical legal term...if you are familiar with it you Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #155

Making other do the work that you are paid for is NOT REASONABLE. FrodosPet Sep 2015 #157

What does the EEOC say about it? FrodosPet Sep 2015 #159

nobody is asking her to drink a fucking can of beer, just do your job lady snooper2 Sep 2015 #134

She can't do her job--she is required to serve on single FA flights and she can't do that. MADem Sep 2015 #112

"Muslims owning convenience stores have no problem selling beer and wine....", so....what? Is it because all those Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #117

Don't be obtuse. This woman is making shit up as she goes along. MADem Sep 2015 #119

You are being strangely outraged over a minor legal dispute! And challenge.... you? Why? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #133

Why are you talking about ME? What makes you do that? You do know it's rude, don't you? MADem Sep 2015 #135

Can't do the job hired to do, find other employment yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #4

Religious accommodation laws have been working fairly well for decades...it is the law. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #18

Who would then serve the alcohol on single attendant flights. 60% of this airline's? whatthehey Sep 2015 #26

There are two alternatives. Igel Sep 2015 #58

Would you have been as even handed in your response if the woman was not muslim? tymorial Sep 2015 #28

Wait, are you accusing FS of being anti-Christian? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #30

Reasonable accommodation is reasonable accommodation, no matter the religion.....I guess the courts will sort it out. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #31

One kid I hired had rods in his spine, couldn't lift weight beyond X amount... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #37

What about a plane with ONE FA? Like most of them? MADem Sep 2015 #113

It's not "reasonable" to have to pay a second FA AND give up a MADem Sep 2015 #120

But what if the meals contained pork? nichomachus Sep 2015 #40

Did she have an accommodation for this? Igel Sep 2015 #59

Reasonable accommodation requires minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #52

Except the employer had already made the accommodation with her. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #55

Perhaps they complained because the division of duties TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #61

Their complaint specifically points out her "foreign writings" and her headscarf... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #63

The complaint may have had other more reasonable arguments. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #79

The problem is the employer rescinded the RA only after the complaint. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #83

We don't know what's in the complaint. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #85

So you're accusing her lawyer of lying when they mention specifics out of it? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #86

Why not. Crazy clerk lady's lawyer is spinning like mad. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #87

If that's the case, the airline could blast him out of the water. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #91

It doesn't matter if those comments are in the complaint... NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #95

A motion for dismissal would have already been filed...which it has not. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #96

Which is why I'm pretty confident the two specifics are in fact real. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #100

Fred, every lawyer will file a motion to dismiss, no matter what the odds. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #102

No. Every lawyer without a conscience and a client loaded with money, will. And will fail, almost Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #105

The fact that an RA is offered and accepted doesn't make it permanent. Xithras Sep 2015 #148

The co-worker probably complained they were over-burdened. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #77

That might be true, but there's also the "foreign writings and her headscarf"... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #80

Which means nothing if the company found she was subjecting others to more than minimal burden. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #84

what was rescinded? passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #116

When does an accommodation pose an �undue hardship�? FrodosPet Sep 2015 #160

Like I said, law school is three years for a reason.... I am glad folks are understanding the Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #164

There's the key phrase... "Reasonably Accommodated" FrodosPet Sep 2015 #167

When will the religious learn madashelltoo Sep 2015 #5

suspended for not doing her job Skittles Sep 2015 #6

Seems too easy right. Statistical Sep 2015 #7

I keep hearing about "reasonable accommodation" Skittles Sep 2015 #17

Folks need a refresher course in Law 101 and Introductory Employment Law. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #20

Yeah, maybe. crim son Sep 2015 #39

Here's a handy link to EEOC guidance on this issue Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #146

2 "m"s in accommodation nt Herman4747 Sep 2015 #131

I define "reasonable" accommodation as one that doesn't interfere rocktivity Sep 2015 #149

It is truly ridiculous. tymorial Sep 2015 #29

Yes, the principal of law is exactly the same and the principle will be exactly applied, within reason. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #33

Absolutely, if you can't do your job because of religious restrictions, then you smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #47

It wasn't mentioned during her training that she would be serving booze? sarge43 Sep 2015 #8

She changed religions after she was already flying. SoapBox Sep 2015 #34

Agree and if her faith is incompatible with job requirements, then she should have quit. n/t sarge43 Sep 2015 #45

This airline has 5 types of aircraft, 3 of which use a single attendant, 2 of which use 2 attendants Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #9

Why do only some Christians stone adulterers to death? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #16

I'm guessing there are Mormon flight attendants TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #10

In the past, there were "strict" Mormons that got hired and then SoapBox Sep 2015 #35

Interesting....I would appreciate evidence of that...could be useful for a lawyer in court when Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #36

Excellent point! Workplace accommodations are made for mental disabilities as well, I suppose Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #41

Yes, but the reasonable accommodation is you can TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #46

I don't think the words "reasonable accommodation" mean what you think they mean. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #50

There is a reason law school is 3 years specialized education, after a primary degree. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #88

I never had law school, just real world experience. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #93

You have the correct understanding of employment law and what the legal principle is, and what "relgious accommodation" means, Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #94

"that still gets me the work I need out of them." FrodosPet Sep 2015 #129

"reasonable accommodation" is indeed the watchword--it's often tossed out the window MisterP Sep 2015 #114

She should have never taken this job question everything Sep 2015 #11

she converted to Islam after she was hired for this position Skittles Sep 2015 #19

Serving alcohol on occasion inflight is certainly a vital duty she objects to doing ...so she should be fired?? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #21

Yes both should be fired yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #32

What do you think of a pharmacist that christx30 Sep 2015 #124

She should be grateful she hasn't been fired. rocktivity Sep 2015 #12

What is going to happen is that employers are going to stop hiring the religious smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #51

Funny she has no problem working for a company making $$ from alcohol. CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #13

she should either do her job, find another line of work or be fired rollin74 Sep 2015 #24

She converted to Islam after she was already flying... SoapBox Sep 2015 #38

and, the really strange part of that is that dhol82 Sep 2015 #115

It's not just serving mercuryblues Sep 2015 #42

See post 27....get informed BEFORE the outrage?! Or not, as you please. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #43

read you post mercuryblues Sep 2015 #67

The EMPLOYER made the call and felt they could reasonably accommodate her. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #71

You are raining down logic and law on deaf ears....anyone wondering why the RW and their media Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #92

Borrowing a page from others in-thread: If she'd been a Christian... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #97

100% a ditto on that! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #98

I'm just glad the Advil finally kicked in. This fucking thread... DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #101

Alcohol /= Pork. It's serving/consuming alcohol that's banned, not touching it. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #44

No I am saying mercuryblues Sep 2015 #60

She refused to serve alcohol. The employer accommodated that. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #65

so you are mercuryblues Sep 2015 #70

And again, the employer made the call to accommodate and she agreed to their offer. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #73

so your opinion mercuryblues Sep 2015 #81

As an employer, I've made RAs for religious requests and physical disabilities. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #89

so your opinion mercuryblues Sep 2015 #81

+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #150

sorry, I can't serve christians, women without head covering, or go into airports with bars nt msongs Sep 2015 #48

Unlawful discrimination, unlawful discrimination, legal personal choice. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #49

I don't know how universal this is followed in Islam. former9thward Sep 2015 #53

All Muslims are alike... /heavy sarcasm DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #62

To get religious accommodation you have to prove that it is an accepted belief. former9thward Sep 2015 #64

You're arguing that a general Islamic prohibition on alcohol doesn't exist? DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #68

Where did I say that? former9thward Sep 2015 #78

Offer her a transfer to another department? madville Sep 2015 #54

That could be a win/win TexasBushwhacker Sep 2015 #56

Derp, she ACCEPTED the accommodation offered by the employer. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #57

That's her attorney's version madville Sep 2015 #66

The cat's already out of the bag on this. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #69

Remember, that's according to her lawyer madville Sep 2015 #72

They mention specific elements within the complaint of the co-worker. DRoseDARs Sep 2015 #75

Might not work, because of the possibility of the baggage containing alcohol (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2015 #106

SOMEBODY QUICK! ALERT MIKE HUCKABEE!!! Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #74

Also where is Ted Cruz? Clearly religious accommodation has gone too far!! The RW quiet is deafening. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #90

The RW take on it is: christx30 Sep 2015 #110

Pretty insane, hypocritical, illogical and unable to make intellectual distinctions, as the RW always is. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #118

I think there's an opening for a county clerk in Kentucky. She might be interested in that. valerief Sep 2015 #76

I think Paleo flight attendants should refuse to serve peanuts IronLionZion Sep 2015 #99

Not worthy....so...no. But thanks for the opportunity! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #107

If she is only regulated to flights that have more than one flight attendant itsrobert Sep 2015 #111

Given the problem Airlines have had with Alcohol WHY are they permitting alcohol at all? happyslug Sep 2015 #121

Because it makes the airlines a shitload of money. Angleae Sep 2015 #125

Cruise Ships Also erpowers Sep 2015 #170

"but since you can NOT smoke of planes, why are people permitted to DRINK on planes?" Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #138

So when a plane crashes or have to land early due to a drunk, that is NOT a problem? happyslug Sep 2015 #139

That's up to the airlines, isn't it? Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #141

If they need a few drinks to fly, they should NOT be flying happyslug Sep 2015 #144

I'll have them contact you next time they fly, for a lesson in slug-flying. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #145

Actually, yes there is FrodosPet Sep 2015 #154

That begs the question- what do you do? Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #163

I am a night shift cab driver FrodosPet Sep 2015 #165

My brother's a cabbie, but in the not so dangerous Madison, WI. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #166

Exactly FrodosPet Sep 2015 #169

This story puts a slightly different spin on things rocktivity Sep 2015 #122

It's her job. No one is asking her to drink the alcohol. Marrah_G Sep 2015 #126

I wonder how Air Emirates gets around this CBGLuthier Sep 2015 #127

Qatar Air, Kuwait Air, UAE Express - their Muslim FAs serve booze riderinthestorm Sep 2015 #137

She needs to find a job that fits her religious beliefs. YOHABLO Sep 2015 #128

Get another job then. romanic Sep 2015 #130

She took the job, she needs to fulfill the duties of the job liberal N proud Sep 2015 #132

The same standards apply as in the Kentucky case: She has a Constitutional right to refuse to serve 24601 Sep 2015 #136

Her supervisor told her to "work out something" with her co-workers rocktivity Sep 2015 #140

Her attorney characterizes it as her employer did agree. That's why we have juries, to decide the 24601 Sep 2015 #143

Given The Absence of Specifics. . . ProfessorGAC Sep 2015 #168

Do the job or find a new one (nt) bigwillq Sep 2015 #142

I get that she can't drink it, but why force passengers to adhere to her religious nonsense? alarimer Sep 2015 #147

"Facts About Religious Discrimination" from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission FrodosPet Sep 2015 #162

Perfectly OK with me. Trying to stick her coworkers with extra work, with religion TwilightGardener Sep 2015 #158

so a flight attendant version of Kim Davis? ButterflyBlood Sep 2015 #161