Latest Breaking News

progree

(12,977 posts)

68. On thinking about this some more

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:17 AM

Oct 2015

And, Holy Father, do you also support those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples. Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?

Given his response, I think the pope is agreeing that a government worker has the right to refuse to issue marriage licenses -- that was the question he was asked.

But I'd also agree that (given the transcript in #61 and all we have discussed), that he might not agree with her "right" to prevent her subordinates from doing so. He might or he might not, I don't know.

So where does that leave us?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

112 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Vatican Source: Pope Blindsided By Meeting With Controversial Kentucky Clerk [View all] pamela Oct 2015 OP

I suspected as much - LiberalElite Oct 2015 #1

Great minds..... Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #3

Yeah, I thought this stunk to high heaven. pamela Oct 2015 #7

Yes, exactly. MH1 Oct 2015 #109

And? Beowulf42 Oct 2015 #32

And there are a lot of Catholic Scalias? n/t mhatrw Oct 2015 #65

That's what I thought as well. I felt the Pope was probably not fully informed. n/t Tess49 Oct 2015 #41

That means the "journalist" who asked the question was in on it. yardwork Oct 2015 #85

As I suspected the Pope was not keeping close tabs on the Davis story as the American media Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #2

and - LiberalElite Oct 2015 #10

Extensive coverage on the Beeb and in the Italian media. nt msanthrope Oct 2015 #57

You are talking about a head of state melm00se Oct 2015 #77

Link? Or hope? Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #81

Well, we've been back and forth on this. longship Oct 2015 #4

Maybe. Or maybe DavidDvorkin Oct 2015 #5

If so Flying Squirrel Oct 2015 #34

I read an earlier story that attributed it to a set up Warpy Oct 2015 #6

Frankly, this is probably the most plausible. Francis has a mission, and it is not necessarily to.. Raster Oct 2015 #16

Joseph E Kurtz, the Archbishop of Louisville rpannier Oct 2015 #22

So was Al Capone. HubertHeaver Oct 2015 #37

And most other criminals rpannier Oct 2015 #47

I've now done a bit more reading.... Raster Oct 2015 #94

To Forgive Is Divine SCVDem Oct 2015 #8

So, the Pope gets punked. PatrickforO Oct 2015 #9

Welcome to American politics. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #11

Nah, this kind of thing has been going on in the Vatican for about 2000 years. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #92

Do you really think that the Vatican is not savvy enough to know Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #97

You're assuming the vatican knew. jeff47 Oct 2015 #98

Would love to see that connection made. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #101

It seems out of character for him to seek out this woman. TwilightGardener Oct 2015 #12

This pope said gay marriage is the work of the devil Major Nikon Oct 2015 #17

Read the link I posted below and tell me he does not seek out fundie right wingers pro actively. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #18

Honestly Mira Oct 2015 #13

So how do they explain the whole shindig they held in November with that whole fundie crowd? Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #14

The pope is old, tired, ill-advised, too busy a schedule, given the wrong script, blah blah blah progree Oct 2015 #27

Not one of his defenders can manage to comment on that Time piece or others about that conference. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #76

I'll be happy to comment on your latest tack. Darb Oct 2015 #84

Your post was entirely devoid of comment on the article at the link. You preached a long and Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #103

Yeah I'm not buying the poor old pope was hoodwinked workinclasszero Oct 2015 #72

Lots of people high up in Catholic hierarchy are total bigots. yardwork Oct 2015 #88

Franky still showed that deep down he is a bigot Submariner Oct 2015 #15

And there it is....why some folks at DU so very much wanted to believe the Pope was not deceived Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #82

Actually, I don't think it shows that one way or the other. yardwork Oct 2015 #86

Here's the Reuters account from 2 days ago of what he said on the plane after the meeting progree Oct 2015 #19

Two thoughts Kelvin Mace Oct 2015 #21

His statement didn't connect conscientious objection to gay marriage specifically. pnwmom Oct 2015 #25

"That statement came in response to a reporter's question on the papal plane about Kim Davis" progree Oct 2015 #28

No, the reporter's question did NOT name Kim Davis specifically. pnwmom Oct 2015 #29

He didn't say he was unfamiliar with all C.O. incidents, and he had met with Kim Davis progree Oct 2015 #35

He hadn't "just met with a government worker who is a conscientious objector." pnwmom Oct 2015 #36

Well, less than a week ago. Yes, I know he is old and overworked blah blah progree Oct 2015 #38

His schedule would be grueling for ANYONE, and he met many, many people while he was here. pnwmom Oct 2015 #40

Yes, he's overworked and poorly briefed (sigh, here we go again) progree Oct 2015 #44

What I said was, that the reporter on the PLANE didn't mention her name in his question. pnwmom Oct 2015 #50

Whose reporters were on the plane? I didn't get that from either story progree Oct 2015 #58

Would you continue to insist on your Reuters version even if you read the actual text pnwmom Oct 2015 #61

No, the Reuters reporter did not imply but stated it was a question about Kim Davis progree Oct 2015 #64

We don't have dueling accounts. I provided you with a verbatim text pnwmom Oct 2015 #78

See my #66 - I was responding to your verbatim text in your #61 progree Oct 2015 #93

Wow, that was a very interesting transcript. Thanks! progree Oct 2015 #66

On thinking about this some more progree Oct 2015 #68

We agree on at least one thing, I think. pnwmom Oct 2015 #79

Yup. But the Pope sure seems to agree that a govt worker has a right to deny gays marriage licenses progree Oct 2015 #95

While it is correct that the government worker has a human right to object, HubertHeaver Oct 2015 #48

I agree. And I think he would, too, under these circumstances. But his comments pnwmom Oct 2015 #51

Didn't Pope Francis just undermine the authority of the Catholic Church? More questions Oct 2015 #49

Well, I'm sure that's what the rightwing of the Church thinks. pnwmom Oct 2015 #52

The point of conscientious objection is in lack of choice. colorado_ufo Oct 2015 #106

Vatican ventriloquists. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #100

These are Pentecostals. Scary if you ask me. They believe in speaking in 'tongue' (whatever). YOHABLO Oct 2015 #20

They're not even close to FLDS. Do you have nay idea what you're saying? They also aren't baby trillion Oct 2015 #42

Interestingly, now we learn that Kim Davus was raised Catholic. yardwork Oct 2015 #89

No shit. nt onehandle Oct 2015 #23

Can Kim Davis disappear, please? NealK Oct 2015 #24

No, this is good stuff. Flying Squirrel Oct 2015 #33

I'm disappointed by that guy. NealK Oct 2015 #60

I have to agree. I can't stand her, or donald trumps face. I'm disgusted that RollingStone put trump trillion Oct 2015 #45

Many conservative cardinals/bishops oppose Francis' reforms & teachings. Divernan Oct 2015 #26

You got it. There's a group of right-wingers trying to undermine him at every turn. pnwmom Oct 2015 #31

Human rights are not an issue of 'sexual morality' based on YOUR morality. They are rights held by Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #75

here is a fix to the above link mrdmk Oct 2015 #62

Thank you. Divernan Oct 2015 #71

for her its all about money elmac Oct 2015 #30

You'll never convince me bvf Oct 2015 #39

I choose to believe the Pope.. the_sly_pig Oct 2015 #43

I've said it before and I'll say it again awoke_in_2003 Oct 2015 #46

+10000000 CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #53

Strong words Liberal_in_LA Oct 2015 #56

I have to say, I thought it was a bone-headed, tone-deaf end to what was a pretty deft PR trip. MADem Oct 2015 #54

I do not agree with the Pope on LGBT issues, BUT that said, I believe he was blindsided nadine_mn Oct 2015 #55

I agree and here is why Marrah_G Oct 2015 #63

BULLSHIT--His security, including our Secret Service, would have had to pre-approve her. nt msanthrope Oct 2015 #59

But security clearance has nothing to do with political optics. yardwork Oct 2015 #87

Do you have unrestricted access to the most intimate happening within the Catholic Church? olegramps Oct 2015 #90

Pope's visit with Davis: A fish on a bicycle. colorado_ufo Oct 2015 #67

Read this article, then tell me how surprising it is that the Pope meets evangelicals...From Nov Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #74

Outreach effort. Many evangelicals (particularly fundamentalists) are anti-Catholic. MH1 Oct 2015 #110

BS Alert, BS Alert he is a Head of State and the Fricking Pope unless the meeting happened on a YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #69

But the Chicago archbishop in that same article says the pope did do it on purpose muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #70

A NAMED Vatican spokesman says Popes meeting with GAY Argentinian couple was his only REAL meeting lostnfound Oct 2015 #111

Sure, they've now decided the PR line they need to take muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #112

Tony Perkins Will Join Anti-Gay Leaders At Vatican Marriage Meeting- Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #73

This I can believe mcar Oct 2015 #80

If that's true, why did they keep it a secret until the pope was out WestSeattle2 Oct 2015 #83

To speculate: olegramps Oct 2015 #91

I actually believe this. We know that here in the US the jwirr Oct 2015 #96

Uber conservative Opus Dei Catholics can't stand this Pope Loki Oct 2015 #99

utter bullcrap taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #102

The fact that none of you can read the facts and answer for them should convict your hearts. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #104

Bad Internet. pamela Oct 2015 #108

Sounds like the Pope is trying to have his cake and eat it too Blasphemer Oct 2015 #105

So the fascist "Christians" blindsided and exploited the Pope. Elmer S. E. Dump Oct 2015 #107