Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
37. You need to read up on the documentary: "A Sinner in Mecca"....
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 01:24 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/may/05/a-sinner-in-mecca-gay-filmmaker-on-a-hajj-of-defiance

This is a gay man who is a devout Muslim, and who went to Mecca even though he put himself in terrible danger just to practice his faith. Which is to say, you can't demand that any liberal who is a Mormon "explain" themselves if you don't demand it, as well, of any other member of a bigoted religion (and that includes all the oldies). Why is anyone Jewish, a Christian, etc. given what the bible says about the sin of homosexuality? Or how to treat women, etc.? Why is this gay man still a devout Muslim?

Here's the thing: What we're drawn to, or love, we love in spite of its flaws. That includes loving people who aren't perfect, and it includes loving countries that aren't perfect, and it includes loving political parties and politicians that aren't perfect. There are always points past which any of these can go and not be forgiven by a given person; a point at which the church, country, person or politician will lose the follower. But we humans have a lot of...well, hope/delusion (you decide), and we have a difficult time giving up that which we're used to or which gives us comfort, or which we just like no matter how bad it is, even bad to us.

Putting it another way, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. YOU believe in something or someone--a country, political party, politician, person, whatever, that probably has let you down in one way or another. Someone else may demand to know how you can still believe in them given this, to "explain yourself!"--but just because it seems "obvious" to them that this is unforgivable doesn't mean it seems "obvious" to you. You know this thing, and it gives you something you need, and you get to decide at what point the wrongs it's doing are so unforgivable that you can't remain with it any longer.

There is no excusing the bad a thing or a person does. But there is 'forgiving" the bad in the assumption that, eventually, the country, religion, person or politician will shed that bad and only the good that we love in that thing will remain. Most liberals who are still loyal to their country, religion, etc. see in it the potential to do that. To change for the better. They may be total wrong, and if they are, that thing will lose them. But until then, that's all the explanation there is. "I like this thing, I need this thing, I believe it can get past this bad (which I don't believe in) and be good." And, "I'm not giving up on this good thing simply because it has lost its way. If I leave it, who will be in it to help change it?"

You don't have to agree with any of this, but that's the explanation. And we're all guilty of thinking it, now and again, in regards to something or someone.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So everyone that is left is a proud bigot, announced and everything. That's jtuck004 Nov 2015 #1
My favorite responce to proselytizers: edgineered Nov 2015 #11
No. That's unfair. The Mormon church is very authoritarian, Hortensis Nov 2015 #42
Well if it is God's will to be anti LGBT it really upaloopa Nov 2015 #52
Rationality doesn't enter into religion. You know that. Hortensis Nov 2015 #55
I quit my baptized religion when I was old enough upaloopa Nov 2015 #56
Me too. I'm not only not a person of faith and have never Hortensis Nov 2015 #58
My brother is a Catholic priest upaloopa Nov 2015 #59
Umhm. My half sister has a strong bent to fundamentalist Hortensis Nov 2015 #60
Nonage, the Higher Self... Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #78
Lol. Their religion is bigoted and nasty and hateful at its core. Sold by greasy, smiling snake-oil jtuck004 Nov 2015 #57
Goodness. You know the saying that religion makes good Hortensis Nov 2015 #62
" raising happy children in very good homes" < Adhering to a religion of bigoty and hate - how jtuck004 Nov 2015 #64
It's not a religion of bigotry and hate - as religions go. Hortensis Nov 2015 #66
Lol. "manifests against religion " < Poor, poor religionists. Hypocrites packed into jtuck004 Nov 2015 #68
So you do reject all "religionists," and reject them all equally, Hortensis Nov 2015 #69
Adheriing strictly to a fundementalist religion is the very definition of bigotry. LiberalLovinLug Nov 2015 #92
And yet I knew Mormons who were open and accepting, Hortensis Nov 2015 #93
I disagree it makes good people better Skittles Nov 2015 #81
Good one. :) Hortensis Nov 2015 #83
I always wondered if Joseph Smith played a huge joke on the gullible mdbl Nov 2015 #82
LOL Skittles Nov 2015 #80
Actually no. LiberalNotLibertine Nov 2015 #74
They are big enough to stand up to bullies, or support and become them, and not hide behind jtuck004 Nov 2015 #76
Slate article put it succinctly tomm2thumbs Nov 2015 #2
this cult onecent Nov 2015 #3
The daughter needs to charge grandma rent avebury Nov 2015 #67
"Shut down" a church?! WE. DON'T. DO. THAT. Hortensis Nov 2015 #84
You can have him help you here if your looking to have your name removed FreeState Nov 2015 #4
Hi sweetie. Long time no see. yardwork Nov 2015 #24
Hi! You too! FreeState Nov 2015 #29
it is time to put a stop to the bullshit Skittles Nov 2015 #5
They need to file a letter of resignation? NonMetro Nov 2015 #6
If you don't file a letter they won't leave you alone FreeState Nov 2015 #7
Wow. I just posted almost the exact same reply. (eom) StevieM Nov 2015 #10
Don't they convert or baptise Jews posthumously. ToxMarz Nov 2015 #15
I think they usually wait until you have been dead for 110 years to baptize you, but I believe that StevieM Nov 2015 #18
Bizarre! NonMetro Nov 2015 #20
The LDS Church keeps people on the membership rolls unless they formally resign in writing. StevieM Nov 2015 #8
+1 :) FreeState Nov 2015 #13
I am curious. StevieM Nov 2015 #38
A few DU members are still paid-up* members of this hate group. LeftyMom Nov 2015 #9
I once knew a Mormon woman who was a liberal Democrat. StevieM Nov 2015 #22
That still doesn't explain the dark skin as a sign of god's disfavor thing. LeftyMom Nov 2015 #25
I think the Book of Mormon originally said that their skin became "white and delightsome." StevieM Nov 2015 #26
I guess it's the same way that many progressive Dems are still iandhr Nov 2015 #32
I don't get that either. I bounced as soon as the family would let me. LeftyMom Nov 2015 #35
No, it's not the same. The Catholic Church will baptize the children of LGBT. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #90
Got it iandhr Nov 2015 #94
You need to read up on the documentary: "A Sinner in Mecca".... Moonwalk Nov 2015 #37
+1 BuddhaGirl Nov 2015 #46
Very good explanation. And some people of faith Ilsa Nov 2015 #53
+1. Thanks, Moonwalk. Hortensis Nov 2015 #85
Yeah, how can a Mormon be a Democrat B2G Nov 2015 #41
Can a Christian Identity believer be a good Democrat? LeftyMom Nov 2015 #45
I am not referring to radical fringe groups. nt B2G Nov 2015 #49
Lacking pre-qualifiers, "ANY religious person" directly implies radical fringe groups. LanternWaste Nov 2015 #50
Thanks for the hot posting tip. nt B2G Nov 2015 #51
I dunno. Why don't you ask Harry Reid? KamaAina Nov 2015 #71
And yet most Democrats identify themselves as religious. Hortensis Nov 2015 #86
There's a hit Broadway musical about the Mormons LiberalElite Nov 2015 #12
Satire, from the creators of South Park. Beartracks Nov 2015 #27
ok that explains it - eom LiberalElite Nov 2015 #28
Saw it. It was hysterical. Laffy Kat Nov 2015 #30
If you have a chance to see it... iandhr Nov 2015 #33
It is incredibly funny. roody Nov 2015 #36
The audience was screaming with laughter yellerpup Nov 2015 #44
Good...its about time they raised the age to 18 Submariner Nov 2015 #14
Sadly, the new policy also mandates that when the child turns 18 they must disavow StevieM Nov 2015 #16
Holding the children responsible for the sins of the parents is keithbvadu2 Nov 2015 #17
The parents did not actually commit a sin. StevieM Nov 2015 #23
"actually commit" - The church does not care about that part. keithbvadu2 Nov 2015 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #19
The Fed should take over that evil state. Dawson Leery Nov 2015 #21
The fact that people need support to leave the LDS church iandhr Nov 2015 #31
It really does. Most Mormon life takes place within Hortensis Nov 2015 #87
I don't think grasp how much it controls FreeState Nov 2015 #95
No. I saw but didn't feel. What I saw from the outside Hortensis Nov 2015 #96
Well as someone who grew up in the church your assumptions are not what I experienced n/t FreeState Nov 2015 #97
They weren't assumptions, just descriptions of the faces Hortensis Nov 2015 #98
Youth Group is Mutual, right? I thought the night of Mutual varied, from week to week. (eom) StevieM Nov 2015 #99
The have "combined" groups or just your age group/sex FreeState Nov 2015 #100
But is that what they call "Mutual" or am I thinking of something else? (eom) StevieM Nov 2015 #101
Yes - they still call it that FreeState Nov 2015 #102
thank you for this--just reinforces how whacked they are. let us not forget the white horse niyad Nov 2015 #34
I just finished reading: Under the Banner of Heaven. Scary stuff! Paper Roses Nov 2015 #39
I wish them luck Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #40
Mormons have to fill out a form to 'quit' their church? Isn't that a Corporate tactic? Sunlei Nov 2015 #43
It's not that they have to fill out a form to quit and stop attending. StevieM Nov 2015 #48
Or, a person can undertake acts of an apostate, and have their name struck HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #79
Wow JLTaylor Nov 2015 #47
leaving the Church of LDS is traumatic-- lanlady Nov 2015 #54
Thousands Are Sailing AngryAmish Nov 2015 #61
I didn't know the LDS church would go so against the words of Jesus. mwooldri Nov 2015 #65
I didn't know the LDS church would go so against the words of Jesus. The CCC Nov 2015 #70
The Mormon church wants people to understand Don Draper Nov 2015 #72
Poligamy was around long before LDS LiberalNotLibertine Nov 2015 #75
I really don't have a dog in this fight. LiberalNotLibertine Nov 2015 #73
Mormons are deeply entrenched in their church, it's hard to leave IronLionZion Nov 2015 #77
They just put 10% of their income back in their pockets! zwyziec Nov 2015 #88
It is the weekend ... Srkdqltr Nov 2015 #89
a quick google of the story Maeve Nov 2015 #91
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Thousands of Mormons Plan...»Reply #37