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joshcryer

(62,534 posts)

59. Allies is the wrong word and certainly not since Oct.

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:37 AM

Nov 2015

Turkey has been ambivalent about ISIS because it's fighting the Kurds / PKK, and Turkey considers the Kurds / PKK to be terrorists in and of themselves, so ISIS was a useful idiot in their fight against the Kurds (this is very similar as to how ISIS was a useful idiot all sides with regards to fighting Assad or the FSA).

But since Oct. Turkey has changed tack due to the bombings that happened there (killed 97 people, many people forgot about it already). Turkey has since been doing raids on ISIS targets in Syria thanks to US F-15s we gave them like two weeks ago.

It is bullshit to call Turkey ISIS "allies." Especially over one downed plane. For the one downed Russian plane the US gave Turkey a dozen superior F-15s. Hell, it may even be the case that the very F-15s we gave them were used to take down the Russian plane!

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Russia says jet shot down near Turkey-Syria border [View all] MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 OP

This whole fucking region. I'm sorry, but too many dicks swinging in the breeze over there. Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #1

It already is WW3 Chico Man Nov 2015 #12

I think WW4. I view WW3 was the cold war and China won. harun Nov 2015 #40

It would be a hell of a note if it was a French fighter jet. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #2

Looks like a Su-24 MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #4

Bingo... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #5

The bad news they were both shot by turkmen as they landed... Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #60

BREAKING: Russian Jet Su-24 Crashed on Syrian-Turkish Border (Sputnik News) CJCRANE Nov 2015 #3

Moscow confirms warplane downed on Syria border by Turkey was Russian Su-24 MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #6

Russia says plane shot down by Turkey was in Syrian airspace MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #7

"One of the pilots was in the hands of Turkmen forces in Syria" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #8

What possible reason would the Turks have to shoot down this plane? coyote Nov 2015 #9

IMHO, it has to do with this BumRushDaShow Nov 2015 #11

If the Kurds form Kurdistan, roughly 1/3rd of Turkey will try to secede to join it jeff47 Nov 2015 #105

Yup. nt BumRushDaShow Nov 2015 #169

They warned the plane leftynyc Nov 2015 #13

The radar track they've released makes the incursion look a lot less than 5 minutes muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #20

Yup, just as I thought. coyote Nov 2015 #23

Like I said leftynyc Nov 2015 #26

The number I heard was 17 seconds. Massacure Nov 2015 #172

right anout isis imo. this is about the kurds and turkey restorefreedom Nov 2015 #33

I guess its time for Syria and Russia jamzrockz Nov 2015 #88

You sound very bloodthirsty leftynyc Nov 2015 #104

ISIS isn't in that part of Syria. Russia was dropping bombs on anti-Assad rebels, not ISIS. jeff47 Nov 2015 #106

They are all terrorists jamzrockz Nov 2015 #124

You're the one who started nuking a NATO ally. jeff47 Nov 2015 #125

Gonna clarify jamzrockz Nov 2015 #129

Idiotic. Codeine Nov 2015 #108

I will go away jamzrockz Nov 2015 #127

Turkey is a member of NATO, and have warned the Russians repeatedly about violating their airspace. That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #14

^^ Too many fighters in too small an area. Recursion Nov 2015 #17

The jury is out on Turkey's role CJCRANE Nov 2015 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Cayenne Nov 2015 #67

Egodan is clinically insane Demeter Nov 2015 #15

I agree, he is delusional...fucking off the charts. n/t Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #31

What would you do? Let a foreign powers fighter jets fly over your country all they want? harun Nov 2015 #45

It was there for less than a minute forsaken mortal Nov 2015 #137

You'd think differently if Mexico called in Russian fighter jets to buzz the border of Texas. harun Nov 2015 #143

This isn't the first time this has happened. Adrahil Nov 2015 #171

Lot's of reasons. Turkey lives in a very rough neighborhood. harun Nov 2015 #42

It looks like? jamzrockz Nov 2015 #86

The plane was bombing anti-Assad rebels, not ISIS. jeff47 Nov 2015 #103

Why doesn't Russia, Assad et al Aria36 Nov 2015 #115

Russia is bombing Isis, that's the problem. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #142

Sometimes they are bombing ISIS. At other times they are bombing those who are fighting ISIS like pampango Nov 2015 #155

Does the Syrian govt have a right to defend itself CJCRANE Nov 2015 #170

Yes. And Russia should be honest that it's main goal is supporting a dictator that grants them bases pampango Nov 2015 #187

The sponsors are Aria36 Nov 2015 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Nov 2015 #10

Merde. This could get really dangerous really fast. Recursion Nov 2015 #16

Moscow could incinerate Istanbul with the push of a button. Let us KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #35

Turkey is a NATO ally. Which means an attack on Turkey put's Russia at war with 28 countries. harun Nov 2015 #43

And they have control over the Bosporus Straits and the Dardanelles. joshcryer Nov 2015 #46

Overheard in 10 Downing St., ca. August 1914. "That Princip is just KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #49

Putin isn't stupid. joshcryer Nov 2015 #55

Truer words have seldom been uttered here. I sure hope He KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #56

A military historian points out Putin needs to send his fuel via the Straits muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #126

Yep, that's what I was getting at. joshcryer Nov 2015 #141

Russia will cut off their gas, and winter is coming. grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #158

No they won't. joshcryer Nov 2015 #182

Exactly. It will be tough talk, but when it comes to money, suprise harun Nov 2015 #197

Looks like you're right: grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #201

Turkey pays its bills. joshcryer Nov 2015 #205

Turkey is a NATO ally . . . except when she is ISIS' ally. With KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #54

Allies is the wrong word and certainly not since Oct. joshcryer Nov 2015 #59

Turkey is well documented to a supporter of ISIS. Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #61

But I thought Turkey is our Ally. Would that mean we KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #71

+1,000,000. Yes, they are. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #72

The only good thing jamzrockz Nov 2015 #97

ISIS is not in that part of Syria. So no, they were not defending ISIS militants. jeff47 Nov 2015 #110

It makes no difference jamzrockz Nov 2015 #118

Bullshit he is. Erdogan just has a bigger problem with Kurdish rebels. So he harun Nov 2015 #145

yes, a Nato ally and anti-Assad. Thats why russias jet was there, russia targets any anti-assads Sunlei Nov 2015 #147

What worries me is that shit has a way of going on autopilot. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #90

Less often than billed. Igel Nov 2015 #144

Sort of what happened in August 1914. The various leaderships of the major powers wer trying to find KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #149

We need to kick Turkey out of NATO, they are allied with ISIL. grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #164

Russian Su-24 fighter jet shot down over Syria - Russian MoD (VIDEO) CJCRANE Nov 2015 #19

1 pilot reported dead muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #21

Putin must accept responsiblity for this incident. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #22

What??? coyote Nov 2015 #24

Who the Fuck does Turkey think it is, the Ottoman Empire? Jesus KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #37

Putin getting put in his place makes some people have a sad snooper2 Nov 2015 #64

we shall see who has the final sad. my guess is it wont be Putin. I see KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #65

Legitimate government of Syria? harun Nov 2015 #44

Recognized as such by the UN. n/t Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #50

Legally 'legitimate' not morally 'legitimate' in the eyes of liberals. Dictators (even secular ones) pampango Nov 2015 #73

Yeah I know, I've heard that several times lately.. EX500rider Nov 2015 #167

More & more Aria36 Nov 2015 #84

Two reasons, as far as I can tell. Igel Nov 2015 #146

But are those reasons valid? Aria36 Nov 2015 #173

Last I checked, that did NOT include authority to violate Turkish airspace. Adrahil Nov 2015 #92

WTF????? - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #36

Perfect user name FlatBaroque Nov 2015 #41

Almost a vanity account name...nt Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #62

NATO calls 'extraordinary meeting' after Turkey downs Russian jet MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #25

Russian Pres. Putin: Describes Incident As ‘Backstabbing By Accomplices Of Terrorists’ MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #27

Uh oh. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong now, but how neverforget Nov 2015 #28

^THIS^ Adsos Letter Nov 2015 #120

unconfirmed reports that both pilots were killed muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #29

cnn just reporting restorefreedom Nov 2015 #48

Update: one pilot is alive, and was rescued by the Syrian army muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #185

Putin pushers frothing for WWIII on Twitter. joshcryer Nov 2015 #30

Your not the most insightful analyst..nt Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #63

WWIII was started with the invasion of Iraq, if you're going to blame anyone. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #76

Absolutely. grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #163

Wonderful. blackspade Nov 2015 #32

Finally We Have Our Own Air Force Ichingcarpenter Nov 2015 #34

Great comic. very a propos. - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #38

Nailed it! n/t ozone_man Nov 2015 #47

That might be accurate if Russia were limiting itself to ISIS targets. They aren't. nt Adrahil Nov 2015 #91

Who are they targeting? Aria36 Nov 2015 #93

They have been hitting ethnic Turkmen near the Turkish border. Adrahil Nov 2015 #96

But why in the world would they attack ethnic turkmen near the Turkish border? jamzrockz Nov 2015 #98

Because Russia is acting as Assad's air force, and those Turkmen are fighting Assad. jeff47 Nov 2015 #114

This is amazing jamzrockz Nov 2015 #121

Those Turkmen militants are Syrian people. jeff47 Nov 2015 #128

I really don't care who they are jamzrockz Nov 2015 #132

Then why'd you make a huge point about who they are? jeff47 Nov 2015 #161

Oh jamzrockz Nov 2015 #165

He's been brutal for decades. Just like Saddam and Gadaffi. jeff47 Nov 2015 #166

I will tell you what I think jamzrockz Nov 2015 #168

+1,000,000. Every bit of this horror is because of our brutal foreign policies polly7 Nov 2015 #175

The Turkmen are fighting the Kurds. joshcryer Nov 2015 #138

Here's one bit of hypocrisy. Igel Nov 2015 #148

OK Aria36 Nov 2015 #100

Turkey needs ISIS to keep the Kurds from forming their own country. jeff47 Nov 2015 #123

Kurds only make up 9% of Turkey's population. joshcryer Nov 2015 #139

Land area versus population. jeff47 Nov 2015 #160

No they don't. joshcryer Nov 2015 #180

And the way they "wouldn't let" is a civil war. Which they'd really prefer to not fight jeff47 Nov 2015 #195

The PKK already does terrorist attacks. joshcryer Nov 2015 #198

You think they'll do fewer if a civil war breaks out? (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #199

The other 99% of Kurds don't back them... joshcryer Nov 2015 #200

So ISIS grows while all the other factions weaken Aria36 Nov 2015 #179

No, they're trying to play a balancing act and keep both factions weak. jeff47 Nov 2015 #196

That's why ISIS has gotten stronger. joshcryer Nov 2015 #204

A lot of ISIS "controlled" area is desert Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #202

Jets have had couple days of 'open season' on any oil tank type trucks. Jet could have been Sunlei Nov 2015 #39

Once again, Turkey effectively allies itself with ISIS. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #51

This is due to Russia bombing ethnic Turkmen villages. joshcryer Nov 2015 #57

Don't confuse the Putinistas with facts. nt Adrahil Nov 2015 #94

I saw that too. The Turkmen (ethnic Turks, Syrian citizens) are fighting ISIS. Why bomb them? pampango Nov 2015 #95

Be on the watch. joshcryer Nov 2015 #112

Nah ......... the anti-death of two innocent pilots and the loss to their families cadre. polly7 Nov 2015 #119

Because? Aria36 Nov 2015 #89

Only because we're thinking binary. Igel Nov 2015 #151

In theory.... odd_duck Nov 2015 #52

You're confusing the Russian word "terrorist" with the English word. Igel Nov 2015 #152

fuckwad john bolton saying it is russias fault restorefreedom Nov 2015 #53

Bolton personifies chutzpah- nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #58

John Bolton has a whole bunch of supporters here on DU too. Nihil Nov 2015 #186

what is weird restorefreedom Nov 2015 #188

I've wondered about that myself. bemildred Nov 2015 #189

well,the president seems to be rolling over for turkey restorefreedom Nov 2015 #190

Obama-love varies widely here and elsewhere, I think. bemildred Nov 2015 #191

i haven't heard his latest comments restorefreedom Nov 2015 #194

Everybody crowding in to fight Daesh should come up with a plan to recognize the White hats from the Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #66

I am so channeling August 1914 right now - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #77

this will be interesting restorefreedom Nov 2015 #68

Why would Turkey do this? Aria36 Nov 2015 #69

Turkey has a right to defend its airspace davidn3600 Nov 2015 #75

It doesn't look like several airspace violations Aria36 Nov 2015 #82

Lots of money to be made smuggling ISIS oil out daleo Nov 2015 #70

Everyone is happily taking ISIS oil. joshcryer Nov 2015 #80

Why wasn't the west hitting the tankers all along daleo Nov 2015 #156

Because of public opinion. joshcryer Nov 2015 #181

And yet the U.S. Blows up other countries' infrastructure quite often daleo Nov 2015 #183

NATO aircraft from NATO nation shooting down a Russian aircraft is an act of war. coyote Nov 2015 #74

sure, lets go ahead and just flagrantly provoke KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #79

Even if the intial plane shootdown could be justified Aria36 Nov 2015 #113

This makes sense jamzrockz Nov 2015 #78

I hear ya, but I sure hope Putin is enough of a mensch to stiff KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #81

LOL joshcryer Nov 2015 #83

Putin's reaction is more restrained than what I have in mind jamzrockz Nov 2015 #85

Oh man, that's even funnier. joshcryer Nov 2015 #87

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #101

But why? jamzrockz Nov 2015 #109

Put it back in your pants, little man. Codeine Nov 2015 #111

Stick and stones may break my bones jamzrockz Nov 2015 #134

... alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #117

I tend to agree with you. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #131

Turkey warned Russia repeatedly to stay out of its airspace. TwilightGardener Nov 2015 #99

NATO has taken the side of the Islamists since day 1 LittleBlue Nov 2015 #102

RIP Russian pilots forsaken mortal Nov 2015 #107

Many people here on DU say Putin is nuts... Xolodno Nov 2015 #116

Because nothing says "Oh, shit!" like the Turks shooting down a Russian war plane. hedgehog Nov 2015 #122

You beat me to it! hardluck Nov 2015 #150

This just in from WikiLeaks. Turkey issued 10 warnings in 5 minutes? LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #130

More like, this is jamzrockz Nov 2015 #133

Am I reading that correctly, they were only in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds? PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #135

No. I think Turkey did not like them being that close to the border. Then the LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #136

No, that's known as itching for a fight daleo Nov 2015 #157

If one does the math, the "incursion" time would have been much shorter. roamer65 Nov 2015 #177

Sure sounds like it. ozone_man Nov 2015 #184

Not the first time. Igel Nov 2015 #153

Amazing forsaken mortal Nov 2015 #140

...+1 840high Nov 2015 #154

Isn't it though. +1000. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #159

Reports they also shot the pilots while parachuting, a war crime. We need to kick them out of NATO. grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #162

Obama should NEVER have pardoned truthisfreedom Nov 2015 #174

I remember that. Symbolism is Everything. freshwest Nov 2015 #206

This is what Daddy Erdogan does when Russia messes up his son's illicit oil profiteering. roamer65 Nov 2015 #178

You sure Edrogan knows anything about this before it happened? happyslug Nov 2015 #192

Sputnik appears to share your doubts: bemildred Nov 2015 #193

Interesting thread Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #203