Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Latest Breaking News
In reply to the discussion: Russia says jet shot down near Turkey-Syria border [View all]muriel_volestrangler
(105,476 posts)126. A military historian points out Putin needs to send his fuel via the Straits
There's Not Much Putin Can Do About This Turkey Situation
But Putin is up against a wall, and frankly, I do not know where he may go. See, his whole "military" campaign in Syria is based out of one naval base and one airport in northwest Syria.
Investigative reporters are repeatedly reminded three words: "Follow the money." Always good advice. But military strategists also have a similar saying: "Tactics wins battles, but logistics wins wars." So how does this apply to Putin and his efforts in a place that does not immediately adjoin his own borders?
Well, yeah, he can provide food and armaments to those bases he has in Syria via airlift. That is possible, given the fairly small amount required to support Russia's really limited forces in Syria, and even what they bring in to support Assad. But there is one immutable thing about Putin's Russian forces in Syria, one that they can't avoid. They need fuel. This is an issue, why? Because to supply the amount of fuel needed by an air campaign requires more than just an airlift. It has to come via sea. Getting fuel from Russia itself to the Russian bases on the coast of Syria involves getting from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. Bit of a problem that, since that means going through the Dardanelles. Turkey, in short, owns Russia on that count. Unless Russia wants to start a shooting war with all of NATO.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39974/turkey-russia-fighter-plane/
But Putin is up against a wall, and frankly, I do not know where he may go. See, his whole "military" campaign in Syria is based out of one naval base and one airport in northwest Syria.
Investigative reporters are repeatedly reminded three words: "Follow the money." Always good advice. But military strategists also have a similar saying: "Tactics wins battles, but logistics wins wars." So how does this apply to Putin and his efforts in a place that does not immediately adjoin his own borders?
Well, yeah, he can provide food and armaments to those bases he has in Syria via airlift. That is possible, given the fairly small amount required to support Russia's really limited forces in Syria, and even what they bring in to support Assad. But there is one immutable thing about Putin's Russian forces in Syria, one that they can't avoid. They need fuel. This is an issue, why? Because to supply the amount of fuel needed by an air campaign requires more than just an airlift. It has to come via sea. Getting fuel from Russia itself to the Russian bases on the coast of Syria involves getting from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. Bit of a problem that, since that means going through the Dardanelles. Turkey, in short, owns Russia on that count. Unless Russia wants to start a shooting war with all of NATO.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39974/turkey-russia-fighter-plane/
Technically, he could send it out of St. Petersburg and all the way round Europe, though that will get frozen in soon, I think (or via Kaliningrad, perhaps? Ice-free all year round, according to Wikipedia). But not exactly convenient.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
206 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
This whole fucking region. I'm sorry, but too many dicks swinging in the breeze over there.
Ed Suspicious
Nov 2015
#1
Moscow confirms warplane downed on Syria border by Turkey was Russian Su-24
MowCowWhoHow III
Nov 2015
#6
If the Kurds form Kurdistan, roughly 1/3rd of Turkey will try to secede to join it
jeff47
Nov 2015
#105
The radar track they've released makes the incursion look a lot less than 5 minutes
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2015
#20
ISIS isn't in that part of Syria. Russia was dropping bombs on anti-Assad rebels, not ISIS.
jeff47
Nov 2015
#106
Turkey is a member of NATO, and have warned the Russians repeatedly about violating their airspace.
That Guy 888
Nov 2015
#14
What would you do? Let a foreign powers fighter jets fly over your country all they want?
harun
Nov 2015
#45
You'd think differently if Mexico called in Russian fighter jets to buzz the border of Texas.
harun
Nov 2015
#143
Sometimes they are bombing ISIS. At other times they are bombing those who are fighting ISIS like
pampango
Nov 2015
#155
Yes. And Russia should be honest that it's main goal is supporting a dictator that grants them bases
pampango
Nov 2015
#187
Turkey is a NATO ally. Which means an attack on Turkey put's Russia at war with 28 countries.
harun
Nov 2015
#43
A military historian points out Putin needs to send his fuel via the Straits
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2015
#126
ISIS is not in that part of Syria. So no, they were not defending ISIS militants.
jeff47
Nov 2015
#110
yes, a Nato ally and anti-Assad. Thats why russias jet was there, russia targets any anti-assads
Sunlei
Nov 2015
#147
Sort of what happened in August 1914. The various leaderships of the major powers wer trying to find
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#149
we shall see who has the final sad. my guess is it wont be Putin. I see
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#65
Legally 'legitimate' not morally 'legitimate' in the eyes of liberals. Dictators (even secular ones)
pampango
Nov 2015
#73
Russian Pres. Putin: Describes Incident As ‘Backstabbing By Accomplices Of Terrorists’
MowCowWhoHow III
Nov 2015
#27
WWIII was started with the invasion of Iraq, if you're going to blame anyone. nt.
polly7
Nov 2015
#76
That might be accurate if Russia were limiting itself to ISIS targets. They aren't. nt
Adrahil
Nov 2015
#91
But why in the world would they attack ethnic turkmen near the Turkish border?
jamzrockz
Nov 2015
#98
Because Russia is acting as Assad's air force, and those Turkmen are fighting Assad.
jeff47
Nov 2015
#114
And the way they "wouldn't let" is a civil war. Which they'd really prefer to not fight
jeff47
Nov 2015
#195
Jets have had couple days of 'open season' on any oil tank type trucks. Jet could have been
Sunlei
Nov 2015
#39
I saw that too. The Turkmen (ethnic Turks, Syrian citizens) are fighting ISIS. Why bomb them?
pampango
Nov 2015
#95
Nah ......... the anti-death of two innocent pilots and the loss to their families cadre.
polly7
Nov 2015
#119
Everybody crowding in to fight Daesh should come up with a plan to recognize the White hats from the
Agnosticsherbet
Nov 2015
#66
NATO aircraft from NATO nation shooting down a Russian aircraft is an act of war.
coyote
Nov 2015
#74
Because nothing says "Oh, shit!" like the Turks shooting down a Russian war plane.
hedgehog
Nov 2015
#122
Am I reading that correctly, they were only in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds?
PersonNumber503602
Nov 2015
#135
No. I think Turkey did not like them being that close to the border. Then the
LiberalArkie
Nov 2015
#136
Reports they also shot the pilots while parachuting, a war crime. We need to kick them out of NATO.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2015
#162
This is what Daddy Erdogan does when Russia messes up his son's illicit oil profiteering.
roamer65
Nov 2015
#178