Russia says jet shot down near Turkey-Syria border

[happyslug]

192. You sure Edrogan knows anything about this before it happened?

I seriously doubt Erdogan is on a minute to minute control of Turkish Air Defences. Given that the Air Force High Command (and most of the rest of the Officer Corp of the Turkish Arm Forces) tend to be supportive of his OPPOSITION, I suspect they not only did not TELL Erdogan, it was their decision NOT to tell him. The Turkish Arm Forces want to intervene in Syria but for different reasons then Erdogan. The Turkish Arm Forces want to improve the position of its "Allies" (I am using that term to means someone friendly to the Turkish Arm Forces NOT someone they have an actual treaty of alliance with).

Erdogan wants to improve his position within Turkey and support his allies in the Middle East.

The problem is both sides allies want Assad gone, but replaced by two different groups. The Turkish Arm Forces want someone in charge of Syria that enhances they allies, the present Government of Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia the US and ISIS. Erdogan wants to enhance his allies, the Moslem Brotherhood. ISIS is a Salafist/Wahhabist branch out of Saudi Arabia. They have always been tied in with the House of Saud and thus favor the ruling elite of the Middle East over the rest of the population of the Middle East.

The Moslem Brotherhood tends to be more supportive of the working class and peasants of the Middle East. That is the power base of the Moslem Brotherhood and Erdogan.

In many ways the Turkish Arm Forces want Assad out and replaced by something like ISIS, someone who will keep the working class and peasants down. Erdogan and the Moslem Brotherhood wants to give more of the economy to the working class and peasants.

Notice both oppose Iran in addition to Assad, but the Moslem Brotherhood has indicated it will deal with them and deal with Christians and everyone else in the Middle East. while the Salafist/Wahhabist reject even talking about such deals. The Salafist/Wahhabist wants to impose they view of Islam on everyone, the Moslem Brotherhood wants to make Islam #1, but opposes suppressing non islamic groups (The Moslem Brotherhood has indicated it would like to impose traditional Islamic restrictions on such groups, but has also indicated that such restriction will be impossible to reinstate in today's society).

A good comparison can be made with today's right wing in the US. Traditional Republicans have always indicated they are willing to work with Democrats and compromise, while the radical right wing has said it is our way to the highway. ISIS and the Salafist/Wahhabist have an attitude like the GOP right wing, while the Moslem Brotherhood are more like traditional Republicans. We may HATE what the Traditional GOP wants they are willing to deal with us. The Radical Right wing of the GOP do NOT even want to think about dealing with Democrats. The same with the Salafist/Wahhabist, they want it to be they way or the highway, the Moslem Brotherhood has long stated it is willing to work with other groups.

This split in Sunni Islam is the biggest policy problem in the Middle East today. It is made worse by the fact the House of Saud has supported Salafist/Wahhabist for over the last 300 years (Through three kingdoms of Saudi Arabia):

First Saudi State, 1744-1818

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Diriyah

The Second Saudi State, 1824-1891:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Nejd

The present, or Third Saudi State, 1931 till present:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud#Saudi_Arabia

More on the Moslem Brotherhood:

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/