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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
20. But with such Education, the Taliban is winning the War
Wed May 23, 2012, 11:50 AM
May 2012

And you have to address THAT issue, not that you dislike the Education the Taliban is providing. In many ways the best way would be to provide similar education, but this time by Government protected Religious teachers (Which is the norm in most of the Moslem World). Once the war is won, then slowly change the educational system to a more western one, but to do BOTH WHILE FIGHTING THE TALIBAN will be FATAL. People will prefer their children to be educated much like they themselves had been, thus any change from tradition, that is NOT supported by the lower classes, will just send them into the arms of the Taliban (In the Communist revolutions of the 1950s an 1960s, the Communist tended to try to educate the uneducated peasants they recruited, but that was a lower class that saw the change in education in a positive light, unlike the people of Afghanistan that do NOT see Western Education in a positive light).

Thus the key to defeating the Taliban is to provide Education and other Governmental services to the lower classes. Right now, that is NOT happening in a way the lower classes of Afghanistan wants it to happen and without their support any change in providing such Governmental services is doomed. Thus saying you oppose how the Taliban is education the youth of Afghanistan is meaningless, for your opinion as to what is a proper education does NOT count of the battlefield that is Afghanistan. The position of the peasants of Afghanistan is the key to victory in this type of conflict and right now it is the Taliban view as to Governmental services (Including Education) that is appealing to the Afghan peasants, thus why the Taliban is winning the war.

Thus we have to embrace much of the same educational system the Taliban support, for the same reason the Taliban do, the peasants wants that educational system. Once the Taliban is defeated, then you can slowly change the educations system, but the Taliban has to be defeated first and to do that the peasants of Afghanistan must turn against them.

If the Government is providing the same services that the Taliban can provide, the peasants will slowly turn to support the Government in exchange for Government Services and peace. This will take years, but the first step is to provide WHAT THE PEASANTS WANT, SO WE CAN WIN THE WAR, NOT want we think is best for them, when that is what many of them OPPOSE.

Thus we must embrace many of the things you oppose, just to win the war thus freeing the Government to then change things. We can NOT do change when the people we are fighting over, oppose such changes AND they have a way to show their opposition (i.e. support the Taliban). Thus as long as the Taliban provide a reasonable alternative to the present rulers of Afghanistan AND the present Rulers do NOT embrace what the peasants want, this war will continue and as long as the war continue there will be no change.

Once peace is achieved then changes can occur, slow changes do to the people who oppose the changes having no real way to express their opposition (i.e not open revolt and no support for such a revolt). During that time of peace the Government can slowly convince the peasants to accept changes in education, but even then the changes will have to be acceptable to the peasants. This appeared to have been occurring prior to the Soviet Intervention, but as the Afghan Government slowed down the process do to increase opposition from the peasants, the Soviet objected and overthrew, first the king of Afghanistan (A Stalin Appointee), then a few years later full scale intervention. Thus the Soviets made a mistake, they wanted Afghanistan to become more modern faster then its peasants were willing to do so AND with the US willing to support the opposition, the Soviet-Afghan war started and was fought. In my opinion had the Soviets let the King go on the pace he had been doing, no problem, but by speeding up the pace, increase resistance with the ability to get support from the US lead to open warfare.

Notice the problem was NOT the need to modernized the education system of Afghanistan, but its pace that caused the conflict. Stalin did NOT think Afghanistan would move quickly and his successors agreed, till the end of their rule. At that point of time you had a generations change in Soviet Leadership, the people who knew Stalin were dying out, replaced by people who never meet Stalin. These later Soviet leaders wanted to show how pure communists they were by making more and more of Soviet Allies true Communists. Afghanistan as a prime example of a Soviet Ally that was NOT Communistic (Worse if had a KING), thus it had to be Modernized. The King of Afghanistan did NOT oppose modernization but wanted to control the pace to minimize opposition. This was NOT acceptable to the Younger Soviet leaders and he was overthrown, then it went down hill from there. The whole thrust of the intervention to make Afghanistan a modern state failed, worse it lead to the fall of the Soviet Union and later the fall of the Government left by the Soviets, then its replacement by a various factions within Afghanistan, then the Taliban intervention. All lead to decline in services provided by Government and the development of the education (or lack of Education) in Afghanistan today.

My point is before we can reform the Educational system of Afghanistan, Afghanistan needs PEACE and a Stable Government. Right now the price for Peace and a Stable Government is to appease the Afghan Peasants so they stop their support for the Taliban. To do so, we have to give the peasant what he or she wants and right now the Afghan Peasants wants peace AND his or her children educated in traditional tribal ways. You have to give them that or you will never get the support of the peasants and without that support you will NEVER have a peaceful stable government of Afghanistan.


, but unlike now, the Government can spend its time convincing peasants that such change would be in their best interest.

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Distusting country get the red out May 2012 #1
I know this doesn't help, but a boy's school was torched in Baghlan province last week. Prometheus Bound May 2012 #4
equal opportunity hate? get the red out May 2012 #7
No, the fight over who PROVIDES this service, which is the KEY to winning a Civil War happyslug May 2012 #9
Yes, but get the red out May 2012 #12
The taliban were the animals leftynyc May 2012 #13
But with such Education, the Taliban is winning the War happyslug May 2012 #20
Bullshit. That area is rife with misogynistic, ignorant people who've oppressed women for centuries riderinthestorm May 2012 #17
And how do you suggest solving that problem, by killing them? happyslug May 2012 #23
We cannot solve the problem. We must leave this wasteland of cultural ignorance riderinthestorm May 2012 #37
What gives the average number "50"? Igel May 2012 #40
The Taliban didn't allow girls to be educated 4th law of robotics May 2012 #21
This is really sick oberliner May 2012 #2
What a sick thing to do. dipsydoodle May 2012 #3
Gosh, it seems our favorite tool isn't working . . . again gratuitous May 2012 #5
As I've posted before, thiis reminds me of the Saudis keeping girls in a burning school because libinnyandia May 2012 #6
+ 1000.... Demoiselle May 2012 #51
This is what religious conservatives (men) fear: FailureToCommunicate May 2012 #8
Who said it was men? This happens in almost any insurgent war happyslug May 2012 #14
We MUST understand? get the red out May 2012 #22
Wars are fought over economics not culture, Culture is used a propaganda only happyslug May 2012 #24
How can it be used as Propaganda get the red out May 2012 #30
Yet more proof marsis May 2012 #10
Absolutely! get the red out May 2012 #11
So when the Viet Cong did the same thing during Tet, it was because of Relgion??? happyslug May 2012 #15
I agree we have totally screwed up get the red out May 2012 #18
It isn't religion per se marsis May 2012 #28
So you think the Taliban want women doctors and graduate students? snooper2 May 2012 #50
The answer is "Does it matter to US war aims?" happyslug May 2012 #52
I imagine that would also validly apply to philosophical extremes, political extremes... LanternWaste May 2012 #16
Religion doesn't have to be the common denominator get the red out May 2012 #19
t seems that with so many forms of extremism having wrought so much damage over so long a period of LanternWaste May 2012 #25
Once again get the red out May 2012 #31
There are many forms of marsis May 2012 #27
This is a terrible thing these men have done, but stop the hate and ignorant hyperbole. please. redqueen May 2012 #26
What kind of person poisons children? drm604 May 2012 #29
I'm worse get the red out May 2012 #33
Ditto marsis May 2012 #36
Gynocide. A reminder of what Afghanistan will be once the world ignores it again. McCamy Taylor May 2012 #32
It won't be called genocide get the red out May 2012 #34
I'm sorry but I just don't believe that there are all that many people who believe that. drm604 May 2012 #35
Under the guise of cultural relativity, there are certainly DUers who are "apologists" riderinthestorm May 2012 #38
I don't think that post is excusing poisoning. drm604 May 2012 #39
It's senseless to expect the right leftynyc May 2012 #42
I don't accept your assertion that many liberals defend shrouding women, drm604 May 2012 #43
With all due respect leftynyc May 2012 #45
Oh FFS! I'm a veteran of probably every burqa thread on DU and there are HUNDREDS riderinthestorm May 2012 #46
Oh FFS yourself. What exactly are they defending? drm604 May 2012 #47
They are defending the disappearing of women in society by virtual shrouding riderinthestorm May 2012 #48
"By poisoning girls they want to create fear." unkachuck May 2012 #41
When do the Republicans tell girls that they can't go to school? sarcasmo May 2012 #44
What assholes and fucked up culture.... octothorpe May 2012 #49
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