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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
88. The problem is that is NOT the law.....
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:01 AM
Dec 2015

Congress has defined the Militia as two parts:

10 USC § 311

a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311


Hamilton actually supported the concept of a two tier militia system in the Federalist Papers:

Concerning the Militia (Federalist #29):

http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-20-29/federalist.29.shtml

The Complete Federalist Papers:

http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/index.shtml#Federlist

Please Hamilton's plans for the Militia was ignored by the First Congress who instead set up the Militia Act of 1792:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Statutes_at_Large/Volume_1/2nd_Congress/1st_Session/Chapter_33

US vs Miller, is the case where the Supreme Court ruled that weapons of the Militia is a factual finding reserve to a jury, thus no judge can rule a Weapon is a Militia Weapon as a matter of Law. That a Weapon is a Militia Weapon can only be found after a trial is held and the Jury finds it to be so, or the Judge sitting without a jury finds the weapon is a Militia Weapon.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/307/174.html
http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

Some History of the Militia and the National Guard, I disagree with parts of this paper, but it is a good paper to start out any discussion involving the Militia:

http://lawsonline.com/LegalTopics/Militia/regulated-militia.shtm

http://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/427_pa9skxwv.pdf

The problems with the Militia is that in rural areas (which was where most Americans lived prior to the 1920 Census), peace time Militia duty was done at the county seat, took all day (this is the day you WALKED to the County Seat) and generally NOT needed in peace time. Thus what is now called the "unorganized Militia" and what in the 1800s were called the "General Militia" tends to be most active in times of local crisis but the members all what to go home once the LOCAL crisis is over. This is both the strength and the weakness of the Reserve Militia. It is a Force Magnifier during times of local crisis, but quick to quit the field once that crisis is over. Thus good when the danger is near, useless if the danger is to far away (which may be the next county over, the distance varies depending on the crisis). Hamilton advocated that such Militia be called up once a year to see if they have the required equipment and then sent home till the next inspection OR a crisis occurs.

Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chin Ming agreed with Hamilton on the Reserve Militia, through they called their Reserve Militia different names (Local Militia, Militia etc, Stalin just called them his Partisans, a popular name throughout Europe till taken over by the Communists Guerrillas during WWII).

Hamilton, Mao and Ho then pointed out the need for a better equipped, armed Militia who would be willing to leave their home areas to go to other areas during their crisis. This is what the "Volunteer Militia" of the 1800s did, what Mao's and Ho's provincial militia did in the China and Vietnam. Like the Reserve Militia it is a Force multiplier but by itself can not win a war, but without it you will lose. It provides a reserve that can be called up AND MOVED to where it is needed, unlike the reserve Militia which is hard to move. This is the role of the ArmY Reserve and National Guard in the US.

The final key to all three, Hamilton, Mao and Ho, is a Regular military force. This provides the key hitting power, the ability to do offensive action that you can re enforce by with Provincial Militia/National Guard Troops AND local Militia. These are expensive to maintain and thus should be kept small as possible, in times of crisis the push should be to call up the National Guard and if needed the local militia.

Please note both Ho and Mao understood that units can go from Local Militia to Provincial Militia and then to being a regular force, and vica versa, depending on what is needed at that point of time. In peace time you need a small Regular Force, and slightly larger National Guard, and the local reserve militia should be counted and plans to call them into service should be made but left alone.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/index.htm

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF160/CF160.ch6.pdf

The problem in the US is we have had no domestic problems the National Guard and Regular Forces could NOT handle since the Civil War. Thus the reserve militia has been ignored. China appears to have the same problem, since the 1950s it has had no need to call up its local Militia so it has been ignored. From what I have read some training occurs in High School in both Russia and China to prepare the students for reserve militia role in the future, but that is about all.

On the other hand just because a "Right" is not questioned for centuries, does NOT mean it is no longer a right. If that was the case the Right to an Abortion would have been abolished in 1792 when it was NOT mentioned in the Bill of Rights. The same with being a member of the Militia, just because the reserve militia has been ignored since the Civil War (and watched as being dangerous since the General Strike of 1877, when the workers on the Pennsylvania Railroad and other rail lines went on strike and the Cities those railroads went through from Baltimore to St Louis backed the Strikers, in Pittsburgh the "Reserve Militia" turned out and drove the National Guard out of town, the State then imposed a blockade of Pittsburgh till the locals agreed to stay home).

The key to understanding the Militia is to accept its limits, and main limit is the concern for local dangers NOT out of area dangers. Political Leaders at the State and National Levels want troops who will respond to what the State and Local leaders think are State or national dangers, thus prefer National Guard and Regular forces over Local Militia. On the other hand during local dangers, the National Guard shows up and supports the local militia (often called "Volunteers" today, that they are doing the job of the Local Militia is not mentioned) when a local crisis occurs. The most televised event of this was the flooding in the Upper Mississippi River in the 1990s, you saw locals helping each other sandbag the river banks. The National Guard and Regular Armed forces showed up (without weapons) and help, but to be anywhere close to be effective they needed the local volunteers, the local militia, to get those sandbags in place.

In many ways Katrina hit New Orleans so hard and so fast, the locals did not have time to sandbag anything. You had all types of "Volunteers" showing up moving people, again the Reserve Militia calling itself up for duty. The flooding was so extensive that there was nothing anyone could do till the water receded except move people. The lack of boats meant the Reserve Militia could not do much, it had to wait for the National Guard and the Regular Armed forces to show up with the boats. Once the boats appeared, the reserve militia did a decent job of making things as comfortable as possible for the survivors, but like most volunteers they efforts was ignored given how bad the situation was in New Orleans (It was a debacle, the plan for Hurricanes hitting New Orleans involved using School Buses to move people out of the City who had no cars themselves. The problem those buses were stored in one of the lowest elevations in New Orleans and once the breach on the levy occurred, those buses were the first to be flooded. The Reserve Militia can NOT do much without the right equipment, and by the time the flooding occurred, there was no equipment for the reserve militia.

And lets not forget the Reserve Militia calling itself to action on 9/11. The passengers on the last plane hijacked, on hearing of the crashes in NYC and DC, called themselves into service and charged the cockpit in an effort to retake the plane. They failed, but they tried. My point was it was the passengers acting as a team, untrained, but still a team, and that is the heart of being a member of the Reserve Militia, to be called into service when no one else is available.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

talking points is right Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #1
Only a few states require gun show background checks. ErikJ Dec 2015 #2
but all dealers Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #3
EZ to get around. And the parking lot is where the real action is. ErikJ Dec 2015 #19
Sorry, but that's just a myth and false. GGJohn Dec 2015 #70
lol. Check this out. ErikJ Dec 2015 #76
I said rarely, and BTW, that NYT story has been throughly debunked, GGJohn Dec 2015 #77
Did you read how most gun dealers at gun shows sold them a gun anyway after they didnt qualify? ErikJ Dec 2015 #79
Why don't you actually watch the uncut version and then get back to me? GGJohn Dec 2015 #81
They gave them bogus info that would disqualify them ErikJ Dec 2015 #83
As I said, Bloomberg almost got his sorry ass arrested for that stunt.. GGJohn Dec 2015 #84
What does that have to do with whether or not guns are being sold without background checks? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #101
It has everything to do with it. GGJohn Dec 2015 #103
Are people buying WITHOUT passing background checks or not? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #104
Those videos were altered to reflect that, much like what O'keefe did with Planned Parenthood. eom GGJohn Dec 2015 #105
are people buying weapons without passing background checks? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #106
Private sales don't require background checks in most states, GGJohn Dec 2015 #107
Are they or aren't they? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #108
I already answered your question. GGJohn Dec 2015 #109
Then why are you denying that it occurs? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #112
When did I deny it happens? GGJohn Dec 2015 #113
Then WTF difference did THAT make.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #114
It makes all the fucking difference, GGJohn Dec 2015 #115
No it doesn't VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #116
No, it's not true. GGJohn Dec 2015 #117
I disagree. hollowdweller Dec 2015 #67
but according to your statement...it will do SOMETHING to reduce it... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #102
Sure. It is a very small restriction. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #118
so what's the problem then? It won't be a further burden on gun owners. patsimp Dec 2015 #4
I have no issue with it Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #5
All sales should go through a background check madville Dec 2015 #8
In Pennsylvania Sales of Pistols can be done via the County Sheriff happyslug Dec 2015 #58
The "internet sales" one irks me madville Dec 2015 #9
I so agree with you Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #11
perhaps internet sales include things like craig's list, where it is individual sellers passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #29
a very small part and if that Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #31
and I am sure you agree Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #33
I think many politicians and people madville Dec 2015 #36
please do not confuse him with Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #37
Who is him? passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #57
Good for you hollowdweller Dec 2015 #72
I didn't shout or stamp my feet, passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #73
You can't sell guns on Craigslist hollowdweller Dec 2015 #69
Why exactly are you and your friends here? onehandle Dec 2015 #10
the Democratic party Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #13
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away; onehandle Dec 2015 #14
The 2nd Amend is now obsolete. ErikJ Dec 2015 #22
So all you need to do is get it repealed hack89 Dec 2015 #40
Or significantly amend it ErikJ Dec 2015 #43
Agreed- take out the militia part hack89 Dec 2015 #44
Or maybe only allow REAL citizen militias ErikJ Dec 2015 #59
No. hack89 Dec 2015 #60
Hunters could keep their rifles in an armory between hunts. ErikJ Dec 2015 #63
My firearms are just fine where they're at, in my house in my safes. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #71
Try getting that one passed. hollowdweller Dec 2015 #75
No hack89 Dec 2015 #100
Well then it's a good thing that very few citizens have assault rifles. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #61
AR-15's are hot sales right now. ErikJ Dec 2015 #64
Those aren't assault rifles, GGJohn Dec 2015 #65
But they can easily be modified to be automatics ErikJ Dec 2015 #66
That's false, GGJohn Dec 2015 #68
You can use a rubberband to modify an AR-15 to be auto-fire ErikJ Dec 2015 #78
Jeezus Christ, using a rubber band is considered by the ATF as highly illegal and will earn GGJohn Dec 2015 #80
lol! Do u really think a mass shooter is worried about whats legal? U a rube or something? ErikJ Dec 2015 #82
Any fucking rifle round will penetrate a bullet resistant vest. GGJohn Dec 2015 #85
The bullets they used have 3 times the speed and force of regular bullets which ErikJ Dec 2015 #86
Again, ANY rifle round will penetrate ballistic vests and walls. GGJohn Dec 2015 #87
Take it up with the ATF then. ErikJ Dec 2015 #89
that guy did not know what the fuck he Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #91
You just couldn't resist could you. GGJohn Dec 2015 #94
Exactly lancer78 Dec 2015 #132
The AR-15 is an "ASSAULT RIFLE" which must be banned from sale in the US ErikJ Dec 2015 #133
Sorry. pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #136
lol. U've been rube-duped by the NRA/GOP propaganda machine. ErikJ Dec 2015 #137
Yes. You can lie all you want.......... pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #138
Yes my 20+ years in the miltary Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #144
lol. AR-15 is heavily used for combat situations. ErikJ Dec 2015 #146
Where do you come up with this shit? GGJohn Dec 2015 #147
lol. It was INVENTED by the US Army as a lightweight Assault Rifle. ErikJ Dec 2015 #152
Fuckng LOL. GGJohn Dec 2015 #155
yes that original pre-M16 AR-15 was an assault rifle Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #159
Just what combat situations is the AR-15 used? Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #148
to bad there is no fixing Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #141
Please just stop Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #140
"Rapid fire up to 100 magazines" pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #143
better stock up on magazines Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #145
LOL! Perfect exhibition of Controller foolishness on two counts: pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #156
"Three times the power" of a 30-06? Marengo Dec 2015 #92
a person that does not know Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #96
What is a "regular" gun? ileus Dec 2015 #110
You have it backwards: AR-15's are 1/3 the power of most regular centerfire guns NickB79 Dec 2015 #123
NickB79: Exactly. Handguns ave. around 400 ft.lbs and AR-15 is around 12-1500 ft.lbs. ErikJ Dec 2015 #124
and you would be incorrect once again Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #127
Duck935: Yes it is an Assault Rifle. ErikJ Dec 2015 #129
sorry but that original Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #130
Duck935: Sorry, AR-15 is easily one of the BEST "Assault Rifles" ErikJ Dec 2015 #131
ATF definition Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #134
Duck935: More ErikJ Dec 2015 #135
M16 is an assault rifle Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #139
Your own fucking link proves you wrong about the AR-15. GGJohn Dec 2015 #150
lol. Only difference is M16 has a 3 round burst. ErikJ Dec 2015 #154
There are numerous differences between the AR-15 and the M-16, GGJohn Dec 2015 #158
So what you're in effect saying is........... pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #160
"faST AS U CAN PULL THE TRIGGER." Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #161
and you would be incorrect again, lol Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #162
........"Gun used in the San Bernardino massacre is a mass shooting mainstay" ErikJ Dec 2015 #166
you are partially correct about these 4 Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #168
let's take the ambiguity out of the 2A to cement its place in the Bill of Rights... sanatanadharma Dec 2015 #126
Keep on disparaging gun owners......it's a real political winner dontcha know! pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #165
Go and read the Heller decision hollowdweller Dec 2015 #74
Have you read Heller?? happyslug Dec 2015 #90
The problem is that is NOT the law..... happyslug Dec 2015 #88
Annoying you, while not a primary reason, is certainly a worthwhile endeavor. Nt hack89 Dec 2015 #18
Weak. Darb Dec 2015 #21
ooh, that was an awesome comeback Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #26
I see that I got all three of you. Darb Dec 2015 #119
Look at you - all morally superior and shit. hack89 Dec 2015 #38
Nailed it, obviously, with the three of you rushing in to whine. Darb Dec 2015 #120
But your only contributions to gun threads are insults hack89 Dec 2015 #122
of course we will respond when all you have is insults Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #128
Wow, that's deep, GGJohn Dec 2015 #46
And a triple! Got em all. I notice the rofl emojie is in two of yall's replies, must Darb Dec 2015 #121
And another deep, intellectual response. GGJohn Dec 2015 #151
yep Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #25
Maybe promoting Constitutional rights. former9thward Dec 2015 #20
Probably because of the name, thinking there might be some real ones here? pocoloco Dec 2015 #30
yep Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #35
Good question. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #42
glad we do not have to abide by your Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #47
Why? GGJohn Dec 2015 #49
You've been here for less than a month and already your telling us pro 2A Democrats to leave? GGJohn Dec 2015 #54
I've "been" here 13 fucking years. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #125
... GGJohn Dec 2015 #153
maybe he slipped up and outed himself, lol Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #163
It appears he didn't know that everyone can see his profile, GGJohn Dec 2015 #164
And who the hell are you to be asking? GGJohn Dec 2015 #45
some think so Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #48
'Them' onehandle Dec 2015 #50
Yeah, you really are. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #52
I'm not a fan of DuckHunter DashOneBravo Dec 2015 #56
'You' onehandle Dec 2015 #98
Who the hell are you to be asking? GGJohn Dec 2015 #99
Standing-up for individual liberty is always part of true liberalism. appal_jack Dec 2015 #97
But it is legal for people to sell guns at a gun show without BG check if they are not a dealer. Hoyt Dec 2015 #39
it is legal for two private parties Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #41
Really Hoyt? GGJohn Dec 2015 #51
I will be voting for the Democratic nominee rockfordfile Dec 2015 #167
What recent shootings would have been prevented madville Dec 2015 #6
you are correct Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #12
All recent shootings would have been prevented without the Republican Corporate SCOTUS in charge. onehandle Dec 2015 #15
You really believe that? Nt hack89 Dec 2015 #17
and just how would that have been accomplished? Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #27
Why exactly are you and your friends here? onehandle Dec 2015 #32
I knew you could not answer a simple question Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #34
Why won't you answer a simple question instead of attempting to distract GGJohn Dec 2015 #55
I'll answer that......... pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #142
Really? GGJohn Dec 2015 #53
certainly not the San Bernadino one DustyJoe Dec 2015 #23
not to sure about that Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #28
The law doesn't require the receiver of the gun to be "prohibited" for it to be a "straw purchase". PoliticAverse Dec 2015 #62
seems like this one was classic straw purchase DustyJoe Dec 2015 #93
very possible. Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #95
Everything politicians do is for PR harun Dec 2015 #111
That'll mobilize the voters come Nov. '16, indeed. eom Purveyor Dec 2015 #7
It's s start mwrguy Dec 2015 #16
Do it SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #24
Yea but when finally? ArnoldLayne Dec 2015 #149
It is sad to have a Congress unable to enact sensible rules for fear of the Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #157
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